anyone from GMTuners?

Atilla the Fun · Post by **Atilla the Fun** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:21 pm

This most recent monday I ordered a computer from LKQ for my 5.3, and they couldn't tell me the service number, nor tell me if it was from an A/T or M/T. It is from an '01 truck 5.3, which is what my engine is.
The instructions with my Painless Wiring harness say I need computer Service # 12200411, and they'll do a free reflash to eliminate the VATS, correct gearing, tires, redline, top speed limiter, etc., BUT if I want M/T, my 12200411 must already be set up for M/T. So I need to find someone else to reflash mine.
Now, I read that for the L36 there was a binary switch. Set it to zero for M/T, one for A/T. Can this be done for my computer?
Also, if I pay you to do the reflash, will that keep LS1Edit or EFILive from working?
I know it's illegal to put this '01 setup in my '06 pickup, and it WILL end up in my Fiero, but is it doable to put this in place of the '06 4.3L V6, electronics-wise?
Thanks in advance!

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:28 pm

Does the 4.3 have a dizzy?

lucky · Post by **lucky** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:24 am

I find that very odd about LKQ, they usually ask you whether you want an ECM from an AT or MT vehicle.....

Atilla the Fun · Post by **Atilla the Fun** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:12 am

yeah, the '06 4.3 has a "traditional" distributor, tho I dont see how it matters. It also has a cable throttle, like my 5.3 but unlike an '06 5.3. I think the old '94 4.3, with it's no-flowing swirl-port heads, actually made better torque below 2500 rpm.
The computer did arrive last night.
Service number is 12200411
there's some other info on the sticker. Anyone know how to decode any of the following?:
DMNP
HDW NO. 09386530
12212431
and I assume this other is a VIN
86DMNP9112600S2X
and again, thanks in advance!

The Dark Side of Will · Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:51 am

Atilla the Fun wrote:86DMNP9112600S2X

That's not a VIN. Any GM VIN will start with "1G" and end with a string of 5 or 6 numbers.

Atilla the Fun · Post by **Atilla the Fun** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:42 am

thanks, I discovered that when using an online decoder, then went outside to look at the VIN for the '06 Sierra.
Anyway, here's my source info:
The L36 (3800 naturally-aspirated) was not only used in FWD applications as early as 1997, but it was also used in the F-body (Firebird/Camaro) in their later years, which offered a 5-speed manual mated to the V6. These PCM's have a binary switch in their list of coded options that allows you to tell the computer if you're running an automatic or manual. If you have the switch set to zero, it doesn't care if you have a 3, 4, 5, or 6 speed manual. It just assumes, "Alright, I have a manual hooked up, just worry about rev limiter, and I'm good to go. Shift times are zero'd out, and I'm not controlling a transmission." If the switch is set to one, it looks for a 4-speed automatic (4t65, 4t65-HD, or 4L65E) and tries to control it using outputs, and if it doesn't receive feedback, it sends the engine into "Limp mode", again, to protect your non-existent auto transmission.
So now I hafta contact Painless with this and see if they'll do my free reflash to include this.

The Dark Side of Will · Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:11 pm

I've *heard* that someone who REALLY knows his shit with a TECH-II can put together a program for a manual transmission L67 by starting with an L36 program and plugging in the L67 timing/fueling tables.

I'm fairly hesitant to believe that, however.

AkursedX · Post by **AkursedX** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:20 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:I've *heard* that someone who REALLY knows his shit with a TECH-II can put together a program for a manual transmission L67 by starting with an L36 program and plugging in the L67 timing/fueling tables.

I'm fairly hesitant to believe that, however.

With Hptuners, this is definietly possible. I consider myself a pretty amateur tuner and I know how to do this. But yeah, you pretty much take an l36 PCM and plug in the timing and fueling tables from an l67 pcm and you're pretty much good to go. There might be some other tables to change (I'm not sure because I haven't done it), but it's still pretty easy.

The Dark Side of Will · Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:14 pm

With HP Tuners, of course it's possible. That's basically what that program is FOR.

However, I was referring to GM's TECH-II scantool.

Atilla the Fun · Post by **Atilla the Fun** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:26 am

So, turns out my computer is from an '02 S-10 4.3, and that means some a$$ at LKQ shipped me the wrong one. Now I hafta pay shipping twice more because of that a$$'s mistake.
This is the last thing I will ever buy from them. Anyway, I got a reply from Painless, and it seems that I can start with an a/t computer, and for $50 extra they can reflash it with m/t programming. But still it has to be from a V8 to run a V8.

The Dark Side of Will · Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:27 am

That's strange. That must be a limitation of their programming capability.

If there were a difference between the V6 and V8 PCM's, there they would have different part numbers. AIUI, an 0411 is an 0411 is an 0411.

After all, the 7730 was used on 6's and 8's. It had to change the limp home circuity, but that was included with the calpak/chip.

The 0411 is a flash computer, so you don't have to open it up to change the chip. There should not be any internal configuration differences by cylinder count.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:47 pm

My guess is they can only change the calibration, and not the code. Since they're flash systems, they probably don't want to mess with the firmware... that could cause the computer to stop talking....

The Dark Side of Will · Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:37 pm

AFAIK, however HP Tuners and EFI Live can both handle reprogramming 4.3 '0411's into V8 '0411's.

Why is Painless any less capable?

Besides, why would the calibration & code be separate? That's so '165, dude.

BigRedDeckSpoiler · Post by **BigRedDeckSpoiler** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:28 pm

FWIW... The Tunercat package that I bought for my '01 4.3 Sonoma will also edit a 4.8, 5.3, 6.0 and 8.1.
They call the package "01-02 LS1 Truck". Period.
This could potentially make my LS-whatever Sonoma swap a lot easier.
BTW, There is a checkbox for "MT". Looks really simple.
Of course, I'll want to start with the correct .cal file for whatever engine/trans I end up with.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:48 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:AFAIK, however HP Tuners and EFI Live can both handle reprogramming 4.3 '0411's into V8 '0411's.

Why is Painless any less capable?

Besides, why would the calibration & code be separate? That's so '165, dude.

heh... keeps everything in one place.

If you change one byte, and you're the address is wrong by one byte, you could cause the computer to crash. If the calibration data is in one spot, you might have it do something you don't want, but it won't crash.

The EPA has mandated that it is *illegal* to change the operating system of a on-road vehicle's PCM (there was a lawsuit concerning what a tuning company could do). Changing the calibration is legal. Nevermind that it could throw the emissions out just as bad or worse than some flaw in the firmware.

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:30 am

whipped wrote:The EPA has mandated that it is *illegal* to change the operating system of a on-road vehicle's PCM (there was a lawsuit concerning what a tuning company could do). Changing the calibration is legal. Nevermind that it could throw the emissions out just as bad or worse than some flaw in the firmware.

Wouldn't be the first assinine or ridiculous thing that the EPA has done.

Atilla the Fun · Post by **Atilla the Fun** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:34 am

Painless is my choice for a harness, as they include every wire I even might need to make this swap emissions legal, if I also buy from them something they call an emissions harness for $100 extra. The alternative is Speartech, and I choose NO on them.
So, with the harness, Painless will, for free, remove the VATS, which does not affect emissions, and I just got an e-mail from them that for $50 extra they will reflash from A/T to M/T, as nearly 99% of all 5.3 trucks came with A/T.
Now, I can get a pair of stock LS1 heads for around $600, and bore my other 5.3 to 5.7, then take emissions as a m/t vette or Z28.
So far, so good.
LKQ is sending me the computer I actually paid for, at their expense, and is paying the return shipping on this one, so I'm out nothing extra except a few days of waiting.
However, Painless states that I hafta start with a V8 program in the computer, even if EFILive, LS1Edit, HPTuners, etc. could change it.
So, I think I now have enough of the info that I started this thread in hopes of getting. Thank you, everyone, for your input.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:50 pm

whipped wrote: The EPA has mandated that it is *illegal* to change the operating system of a on-road vehicle's PCM (there was a lawsuit concerning what a tuning company could do). Changing the calibration is legal. Nevermind that it could throw the emissions out just as bad or worse than some flaw in the firmware.

Got a link to the exact wording on the ruling?

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:01 pm

Series8217 wrote:
whipped wrote: The EPA has mandated that it is *illegal* to change the operating system of a on-road vehicle's PCM (there was a lawsuit concerning what a tuning company could do). Changing the calibration is legal. Nevermind that it could throw the emissions out just as bad or worse than some flaw in the firmware.
Got a link to the exact wording on the ruling?

No, I heard this word of mouth. My dad works at one of the major tuning companies as a programmer. He said they couldn't touch the code, at all, under any circumstances. Even if they could improve this or that.

lucky · Post by **lucky** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:02 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote: If there were a difference between the V6 and V8 PCM's, there they would have different part numbers. AIUI, an 0411 is an 0411 is an 0411.

After all, the 7730 was used on 6's and 8's. It had to change the limp home circuity, but that was included with the calpak/chip.

I recall Sinister saying something along the lines of (in the case of the 7730 anyway) the ECM is the same across all applications, but there's something in the root programing of the memcal that was different from 6 and 8 cyl apps that couldn't be changed via programming/tuning software.

EDIT Atilla, I woulda bitched until they ate the shipping, why should you hafta pay for their mistake?