S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

[The Dark Side of Will]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 0580677376

5 litres, 395 HP

Extremely good price, too.

[Emc209i]

That's a tall engine for transverse use.

[Aaron]

It's large in every other way, too. Other than sounding fantastic, they don't have anything on the LSX. They are big, heavy, complex to swap, expensive like crazy, and don't have much to show for it (5.0, 400hp). A simple LSX will do everything better. But everyone has a LSX swapped car, so uniqueness is out.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Didn't your momma ever teach you that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all?

Heavy like a Northstar... IE, not that heavy.
$3500 isn't *that* expensive, especially considering the technology involved (e.g. throttle per cylinder)
400 HP isn't much?
'k. 'tev.

Don't have to swap it into a Fiero, either:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?c ... =287343796

Bolt in place of the M60B30 with nearly double the HP.

[Emc209i]

Didn't your momma ever teach you that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all?

She tried, but we both know who won that battle.

Heavy like a Northstar... IE, not that heavy.

More or less bulky like the northstar.

$3500 isn't *that* expensive, especially considering the technology involved (e.g. throttle per cylinder)

It's still expensive.

400 HP isn't much?
'k. 'tev.

For $3500 it's not.

Don't have to swap it into a Fiero, either:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?c ... =287343796

Bolt in place of the M60B30 with nearly double the HP.

I know I'm a lot younger than you, so I personally prefer the 97+ BMW styles. I'd just put the $3500 towards buying a newer black on black 7 series.

Playing devil's advocate.

[The Dark Side of Will]

More or less bulky like the northstar.

$3500 isn't *that* expensive, especially considering the technology involved (e.g. throttle per cylinder)

It's still expensive.

400 HP isn't much?
'k. 'tev.

For $3500 it's not.

I know I'm a lot younger than you, so I personally prefer the 97+ BMW styles. I'd just put the $3500 towards buying a newer black on black 7 series.

Playing devil's advocate.

Playing devil's advocate is ok, as long as you can respect the other guy's points.

400 HP in a 3600# car is a nice fun ride. It might not beat everything, but it'll walk all over a new 550i, be quicker than an E39 M5 and surprise the hell out of a E60 M5 owner, with less than $10K in the car.

Yeah, a Northstar is pretty bulky. It's only saving grace for Fiero use is that it was designed to be transverse, and therefore isn't longer than the engine bay is wide.
There is a guy on Pfiffle who's put an M60 into a Fiero. I think he's in Europe, though.

The LSx has spoiled everyone. People think that 400 HP is free everywhere. There's a guy on Corner-Carvers spending probably $20K on a 395 cid Porsche 928 stroker that might hit 450 RWHP. Obvoiusly, that much money into a 6.0 would be running well into double digit boost and putting 4 digit power to the pavement.
If you look at the *engine*, then $3500 for 400 HP might not seem like a good deal compared to a $500 5.3 with a $150-$200 Cam.
That's basically an apples/apples comparison when installing in a Fiero or other non-native platform, as both engines will need adpater plate, fabricated mounts, chassis surgery, exhaust, etc.

However, the E34 chassis (530 is a V8) accepts the engine as a bolt-in, at least as far as mounts and transmission go. While not optimal, the stock 530 exhaust would probably bolt up.
Installing a 5.3 in the E34 would require acquiring a manual transmission, fabbing/buying mounts, etc. which could easily push the costs to be comparable.
And besides, it didn't sell. I might be able to call the guy up and get him to take $2500. Who knows?

The E34 is a very well built chassis that is big enough to be believable for 4 adults, yet smaller and lighter than the E39 or any 7 series. They can accept 10" wide rear wheels. They are not very expensive to repair and are also invisible in northern VA. But they still say BMW on them and have heated seats, so chicks still dig.

It works for me.

The engine management for the S62 in an OBDI car might be tricky, however.

[Atilla the Fun]

Better to have the only LSx E34 for 500 miles in every direction. Even if it is the LR4. Complete runners with warranty are $200 here. Add $50 for the computer. Grab an NV3500 from a 4.3 S-10, that's adequately strong, and goes for like $120 here. It will like an axle ratio of 3.08:1 or so. Still a world of wiring hassles.
But if you want a BMW engine, in that price range, go for the all-aluminum M73B54. Then add a pair of Chinese turbos from E-bay.

[The Dark Side of Will]

While the V12 *does* fit in the E34 and the swap *has* been done...
The M70 family will need a lot of work to be used with a stick. All three DME's will need retuning (or swap with units from an 850/6 speed) and it'll need an adapter plate (Getrag 260 or similar) or custom bellhousing (Getrag 265).
The 6 speed from an 850 will cost $4-5K to swap in on top of the V12 swap.

And after all that, the engine would still need $$$ mods to hit 400 HP. Go price a pair of Schrick cams for it. Turbos don't just bolt on in this engine bay, either.
I've read a better thread about it, but this is what I could find quickly: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1440514

Here's the thread I was thinking about... http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... p?t=819995

[CincinnatiFiero]

I am sick of seeing LSx's, I fully support a BMW V8 swap, but not into a Fiero. Not worth it.

[Emc209i]

... but not into a Fiero. Not worth it.

This.

[Aaron]

The V12 idea is cool, as V12s are naturally pimp, but the BMW V12 is just done for pimpness and not for performance, as a 4.0 V8 would probably out accelerate it.

I am sick of seeing LSx's, I fully support a BMW V8 swap, but not into a Fiero. Not worth it.

I'm on the same page, that's a big draw to the BMW 5.0 as opposed to the LSX.

[The Dark Side of Will]

http://www.streetfire.net/video/bmw-e30 ... _99202.htm

[Atilla the Fun]

While the V12 *does* fit in the E34 and the swap *has* been done...
The M70 family will need a lot of work to be used with a stick. All three DME's will need retuning (or swap with units from an 850/6 speed) and it'll need an adapter plate (Getrag 260 or similar) or custom bellhousing (Getrag 265).
The 6 speed from an 850 will cost $4-5K to swap in on top of the V12 swap.

And after all that, the engine would still need $$$ mods to hit 400 HP. Go price a pair of Schrick cams for it. Turbos don't just bolt on in this engine bay, either.
I've read a better thread about it, but this is what I could find quickly: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1440514

Here's the thread I was thinking about... http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... p?t=819995

I wouldn't do any swap at all, I'd just rear-turbo whatever it was built with, since re-wiring a Bimmer doesn't interest me. squires has the right idea, but the prices STS asks, unreal. A cheap import turbo really is the best muffler.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I can put BMW's factory turbo hardware from a 745 turbo on my car very easily also.

But too much is never enough.

[CincinnatiFiero]

I looked into factory turbo stuff when I was into Beemers, (it never fit my stuff, I had E46 and E90) but I always wanted an E34. For the time, effort, and money to track down a factory COMPLETE 745i kit, you could build one out of newer, more powerful componets for the same money and less searching.

I like my 88GT to hop in and drive, its cheap to run, and entertaining to drive. My 3800SC is a ton faster, but the 88 with a manual is more *fun*. Both are cheap. Which is why I like them. A $10,000 swap into a fiero seems like a waste.

[The Dark Side of Will]

The only thing I'd use from the 745 would be the manifold and DME (Upgraded with a tunable Miller Performance WAR chip). I'd use a modern turbo, wastegate and custom exhaust. I *might* reuse some of the 745 intake ducting, but I'd upgrade the intercooler. There are also other turbo manifolds available for the M30 engine.

One project at a time.

[Atilla the Fun]

I can put BMW's factory turbo hardware from a 745 turbo on my car very easily also.

But too much is never enough.

Until you are in your mid 30s, or have a wife and kids, or both. Nearly everyone slows down sooner or later. Just hope you're not one of those few rare exceptions. Even at age 30, I hoped I would be, but now, I'm glad I'm not.

[Atilla the Fun]

I like my 88GT to hop in and drive, its cheap to run, and entertaining to drive. My 3800SC is a ton faster, but the 88 with a manual is more *fun*. Both are cheap. Which is why I like them. A $10,000 swap into a fiero seems like a waste.

This is the appeal of an L67 with a manual, on an '88 cradle.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I turned 30 in Iraq and I'm 31 now.
I own two properties in northern VA (looking for #'s 3 and following), I'm finishing up a MS in Systems Engineering, I was just selected for LCDR in the Navy Reserve, I work full time in aerospace and trade the stock market.
Sometimes life gets in the way of cars.
No wife or kids, yet. Did have a scare recently, though.

[Atilla the Fun]

One project at a time.

It's not new that we disagree on this, but I'm beginning to wonder how you arrived at your position on this?