Performance intake/exhaust options

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:56 am

Automatics suck across the board and hypoid bevel gearsets (RWD differential) suck up power.
I think that loss % through a 282 goes down as power goes up. I wouldn't think it would use more than 10% at 300 HP.

nfswift · Post by **nfswift** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:46 pm

Ok, I fold!

The iron heads will get shelved.

I saw the comparison of $900 race ported irons flowing the same CFM as stock Aluminums... I guess I'll just have to convert the block over.

The comp ratio is hellishly un-turbo friendly though.

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:32 pm

Just buy a whole Gen III engine. You can pick them up for less than $500.

nfswift · Post by **nfswift** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:06 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Just buy a whole Gen III engine. You can pick them up for less than $500.

Not where I live, not at all.

And plus, the 3.4 short block is already in the shop, it's going to be how it's going to be.

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:40 pm

Then buy 3.4 aluminum head pistons, if you are going to get the aluminum heads then.

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:48 pm

Yeah, just use the 3400 pistons. I like the Gen III blocks because they accept roller cams.

nfswift · Post by **nfswift** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:35 pm

Well what cam options would be good and strong in the 3400?
Can I use both roller and flat-taps? Roller cams are great and all, but very pricey for an application where I don't need ABSOLUTE performance, just good sound performance.

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:02 pm

There are several cam options for the 3400. However a new cam is out of your budget.

You can't run a roller cam in a 3.4 block though. Only the 3100/3400 blocks have provisions for the roller cams.

If you are using the 3.4 block, then use a crane 272 cam and matching springs lifters, pushrods, retainers, and lifters. It will have good "sound"

nfswift · Post by **nfswift** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:08 pm

Shaun41178(2) wrote:There are several cam options for the 3400. However a new cam is out of your budget.

You can't run a roller cam in a 3.4 block though. Only the 3100/3400 blocks have provisions for the roller cams.

If you are using the 3.4 block, then use a crane 272 cam and matching springs lifters, pushrods, retainers, and lifters. It will have good "sound"

I'm not refering to cam lope, I mean a stout powerband, strong acceleration, etc. The 272 is pretty weak on the vacuum though and should, like you say, produce a neat sound.

Will the 272 honestly get me decent results with a 3400 or am I shooting myself in the foot here?

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:25 pm

272 is about as big as you can go off the shelf. It will work fine with a 3400. Others have used it. It idles fine. Decent vacuum.

Do you want to go smaller then a 272?

nfswift · Post by **nfswift** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:27 pm

I doubt I'd go smaller, seeing as I would LIKE to make 200WHP, but would be satisfied achieving 200 crank and slowly working my way up to 1HP/C.I.

So I should still be budgeting for some decent flat-tappet parts.
Would any of ARI's in-house cams rival the 272 for HP/dollar?
Their "phase 3 cam" is spec'd very, very closely to the 272 but there is a huge difference in price... "you get what you pay for" though.
A tough decision.

BigRedDeckSpoiler · Post by **BigRedDeckSpoiler** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:47 pm

A quick Google search came up with this site
http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/sh ... hp?t=33452

It's a list of 60* v6 cams.

Stock 3.4

195/201 .390"/.410" 109Â°

Comp Cams

High Energy 240H (16-115-4)
192/200 .390"/.390" 108Â°

High Energy 252H (16-232-4)
206/206 .425"/.425" 110Â°

High Energy 260H (16-233-4)
212/212 .440"/.440" 110Â°

Crane Cams

PowerMax 2020 (254112)
198/204 .401"/.423" 104Â°

PowerMax 2030 (254122)
204/214 .423"/.423" 109Â°

H-260-2 (253901)
204/216 .427"/.454" 112Â°

H-272-2 (253941)
216/228 .454"/.480" 112Â°

Crower Cams

Mileage Compu-Pro Lv1 (03040)
182/192 .386"/.387" 114Â°

Mileage Beast Lv2 (03002)
194/202 .390"/.410" 109Â°

Baja Beast Lv3 (03015)
204/214 .422"/.444" 112Â°

Ultra Compu-Pro Lv4 (03043)
212/218 .435"/.449" 112Â°

Hi-Draulic Hauler Lv4 (03050)
226/234 .470"/.492" 108Â°

Edelbrock

Performer-Plus (3790)
204/214 .420"/.442" 112Â°

GM Performance Parts

12363220
204/216 .427"/.454" 108Â°

12364059
204/216 .427"/.454" 112Â°

Lunati

High Efficiency (06312)
195/205 .405"/.427" 112Â°

Melling

Select Performance (MTC-5)
204/214 .420"/.443" 112Â°

Schneider

252-56H (02371)
194/204 .390"/.410" 110Â°

256H (02370)
204/204 .420"/.420" 110Â°

256-2H (02372)
204/214 .420"/.440" 112Â°

131H (02375)
208/208 .420"/.420" 110Â°

135H (02373)
218/218 .460"/.460" 110Â°

270-84H (02374)
214/224 .440"/.460" 112Â°

Solid or Solid Roller cams also available

60Â° 3100/3400/3500 FWD V6 Camshafts
(Roller Hydraulic Lifter, 1.6 Rocker)

Stock 3x00
197/197 .436"/.436" 112Â°
_________________________________

Check out the Crower Hydraulic Hauler.
It's got a bit longer duration than the 272, and seems to have the highest lift of any off-the-shelf hydraulic.
When I started hearing about people wiping out 272s in a few thousand miles (apparently not as widespread as I first thought) I was tempted to go with that one.

Go to http://www.crower.com/pdf/2-52.pdf
Scroll to page 18 or thereabouts.
They also recommend a spring kit that actually seems to be pretty straightforward. (Stock spring diameter, etc.) I'm not sure what you'd have to do to make it work with the aluminum heads, however.

To anyone who cares...
It's interesting that the stock iron head 3.4 has a "staggered" cam profile (exhaust has higher lift than intake), while the 3x00 seems to have a "square" profile.
Do the aluminum heads flow that much better in the exhaust ports, compared to the intakes?

The Dark Side of Will · Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:57 pm

"staggered" = dual pattern (different lobes for exhaust and intake)
"square" = single pattern (same lobe profile for exhaust and intake)

BigRedDeckSpoiler · Post by **BigRedDeckSpoiler** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:20 pm

What I'm wondering is, since the 3x00 ships with the square profile, would it be beneficial to keep that square profile if the aluminum heads were going to be used, instead of going with the staggered profile such as the 272 or the Crower.

Just something to think about, before spending a bunch of money. I don't know anything about the aluminum heads, other than they're "better".

nfswift · Post by **nfswift** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:06 am

Yea another alternative to the 272 was the Crane PowerMax F-228/3067-2-12 which looks like

duration@.050"-advertised duration-lift-lobe center
IN/EX|IN/EX|IN/EX|IN/EX
228/238| 290/300| .460/.480| 112/112

However, hiking the profile that much will probably only start to make the engine more unstreetable.

Matching the cam to the rest of the valvetrain is a good idea when considering lifespan, I guess I should be looking for the proper MATCH for the cam rather than the accepted benchmarks, IE LS6 valve springs etc.