http://bigthreeauto.procon.org/
Interesting summary and comparison of the Big 3 with Honda and Toyota. Doesn't paint a pretty picture. Mismanagement is as big a problem of the American auto industry as the UAW.
Big Three Automaker issues
Moderator: ericjon262
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The Dark Side of Will
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That chart, if accurate, makes it very easy to see why they are doing so poorly in relation. Unfortunately, it is also nothing we can change. The "Big 3" pay their employees considerably more. They also operate much more US manufacturing plants.
The only solution, and it isn't even a solution, is to pay the executives less. There isn't a person in America worth $22 million dollars a year. However, this may not even work, because other large companies in different fields will still be paying huge salaries to executives, so what's to stop the Big 3 execs from moving to different industries?
It's a rock and a hard spot for sure. However, I think a 75% cut to all executive salaries would help quite a bit.
The only solution, and it isn't even a solution, is to pay the executives less. There isn't a person in America worth $22 million dollars a year. However, this may not even work, because other large companies in different fields will still be paying huge salaries to executives, so what's to stop the Big 3 execs from moving to different industries?
It's a rock and a hard spot for sure. However, I think a 75% cut to all executive salaries would help quite a bit.
88GT 3.4 DOHC Turbo
Gooch wrote:Way to go douche. You are like a one-man, fiero-destroying machine.
It would help everyone feel better maybe. GM alone emplys 96,000 people. Divide $13 million (leave a cool million for the CEO) that many ways and it doesn't amount to much. It's putting a drop back into a bucket with a 4" hole in the bottom.Aaron wrote: It's a rock and a hard spot for sure. However, I think a 75% cut to all executive salaries would help quite a bit.
I think that people may have to come to grips with the idea that the big 3 can't recover...
Sucks horse testicles, but it's hard to steer a container ship to safety if you've been ignoring the lighthouse for years, and the bow's already crunching over the rocks.
Sucks horse testicles, but it's hard to steer a container ship to safety if you've been ignoring the lighthouse for years, and the bow's already crunching over the rocks.
"Oh, this is too good. She thinks you're a servant... Cause you're black! This is greatest moment in my miserable life... Sooo-ey! I LOVE RACISM!"
Sure 13 million doesn't help much. However, count every executive, not just the CEO. I know GM has hundreds of people making over 1 million a year.Indy wrote: It would help everyone feel better maybe. GM alone emplys 96,000 people. Divide $13 million (leave a cool million for the CEO) that many ways and it doesn't amount to much. It's putting a drop back into a bucket with a 4" hole in the bottom.
Another solution, albeit it radical, is maybe not allow the sale of foreign cars in America. It'd be legal, however, its impacts on our economy would be equally devastating. Or maybe required that everyone involved in the manufacture of a vehicle for sale in America be paid on the same scale, basically, require that even though they put the screws in over in Japan, they be paid similarly to how they are here. Bottom line, it's like Mach10 said. It just might be too late.
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Fastback86
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You guys are a bit behind, all three CEOs agreed to take $1 salaries a few days ago.
http://wot.motortrend.com/6374718/indus ... index.html
http://wot.motortrend.com/6374718/indus ... index.html
<Insert Sig Here>
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The Dark Side of Will
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1$ salaries don't mean much with 10 million dollar bonuses. And did they also cut the salaries of every single employee making more than 500k? They need to.Fastback86 wrote:You guys are a bit behind, all three CEOs agreed to take $1 salaries a few days ago.
http://wot.motortrend.com/6374718/indus ... index.html
And the employees are still paid much less? Another rock hard place situation. Pay them more, those companies get into trouble, pay less, and then the Big 3 employees are hurting.The Dark Side of Will wrote:Most cars sold in this country are actually built here.
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Boscolingus
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As I watched the coverage of the fate of the U.S. auto industry, one alarming and frustrating fact hits me right between the eyes. The fate of our nation's economic survival is in the hands of some congressmen who are completely out of touch and act without knowledge of an industry that affects almost every person in our nation. The same lack of knowledge is shared with many journalists whom are irresponsible when influencing the opinion of millions of viewers.
Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama has doomed the industry, calling it a dinosaur. No Mr. Shelby, you are the dinosaur, with ideas stuck in the '70s, '80s and '90s. You and the uninformed journalist and senators that hold onto myths that are not relevant in today's world.
When you say that the Big Three build vehicles nobody wants to buy, you must have overlooked that GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the U.S. and Ford outsold Honda by 850,000 and Nissan by 1.2 million in the U.S. GM was the world's No. 1 automaker beating Toyota by 3,000 units.
When you claim inferior quality comes from the Big Three, did you realize that Chevy makes the Malibu and Ford makes the Fusion that were both rated over the Camry and Accord by J.D. Power independent survey on initial quality? Did you bother to read the Consumer Report that rated Ford on par with good Japanese automakers.
Did you realize Big Three's gas guzzlers include the 33 mpg Malibu that beats the Accord. And for '09 Ford introduces the Hybrid Fusion whose 39 mpg is the best midsize, beating the Camry Hybrid. Ford's Focus beats the Corolla and Chevy's Cobalt beats the Civic.
When you ask how many times are we going to bail them out you must be referring to 1980. The only Big Three bailout was Chrysler, who paid back $1 billion, plus interest. GM and Ford have never received government aid.
When you criticize the Big Three for building so many pickups, surely you've noticed the attempts Toyota and Nissan have made spending billions to try to get a piece of that pie. Perhaps it bothers you that for 31 straight years Ford's F-Series has been the best selling vehicle. Ford and GM have dominated this market and when you see the new '09 F-150 you'll agree this won't change soon.
Did you realize that both GM and Ford offer more hybrid models than Nissan or Honda. Between 2005 and 2007, Ford alone has invested more than $22 billion in research and development of technologies such as Eco Boost, flex fuel, clean diesel, hybrids, plug in hybrids and hydrogen cars.
It's 2008 and the quality of the vehicles coming out of Detroit are once again the best in the world.
Perhaps Sen. Shelby isn't really that blind. Maybe he realizes the quality shift to American. Maybe it's the fact that his state of Alabama has given so much to land factories from Honda, Hyundai and Mercedes Benz that he is more concerned about their continued growth than he is about the people of our country. Sen. Shelby's disdain for "government subsidies" is very hypocritical. In the early '90s he was the driving force behind a $253 million incentive package to Mercedes. Plus, Alabama agreed to purchase 2,500 vehicles from Mercedes. While the bridge loan the Big Three is requesting will be paid back, Alabama's $180,000-plus per job was pure incentive. Sen. Shelby, not only are you out of touch, you are a self-serving hypocrite, who is prepared to ruin our nation because of lack of knowledge and lack of due diligence in making your opinions and decisions.
After 9/11, the Detroit Three and Harley Davidson gave $40 million-plus emergency vehicles to the recovery efforts. What was given to the 9/11 relief effort by the Asian and European Auto Manufactures? $0 Nada. Zip!
We live in a world of free trade, world economy and we have not been able to produce products as cost efficiently. While the governments of other auto producing nations subsidize their automakers, our government may be ready to force its demise. While our automakers have paid union wages, benefits and legacy debt, our Asian competitors employ cheap la bor. We are at an extreme disadvantage in production cost. Although many UAW concessions begin in 2010, many lawmakers think it's not enough.
Some point the blame to corporate management. I would like to speak of Ford Motor Co. The company has streamlined by reducing our workforce by 51,000 since 2005, closing 17 plants and cutting expenses. Product and future product is excellent and the company is focused on one Ford. This is a company poised for success. Ford product quality and corporate management have improved light years since the nightmare of Jacques Nasser. Thank you Alan Mulally and the best auto company management team in the business.
The financial collapse caused by the secondary mortgage fiasco and the greed of Wall Street has led to a $700 billion bailout of the industry that created the problem. AIG spent nearly $1 million on three company excursions to lavish resorts and hunting destinations. Paulson is saying no to $250 billion foreclosure relief and the whole thing is a mess. So when the Big Three ask for 4 percent of that of the $700 billion, $25 billion to save the country's largest industry, there is obviously oppositions. But does it make sense to reward the culprits of the problem with $700 billion unconditionally, and ignore the victims?
As a Ford dealer, I feel our portion of the $25 billion will never be touched and is not necessary. Fo rd currently has $29 billion of liquidity. However, the effect of a bankruptcy by GM will hurt the suppliers we all do business with. A Chapter 11 bankruptcy by any manufacture would cost retirees their health care and retirements. Chances are GM would recover from Chapter 11 with a better business plan with much less expense. So who foots the bill if GM or all three go Chapter 11? All that extra health care, unemployment, loss of tax base and some forgiven debt goes back to the taxpayer, us. With no chance of repayment, this would be much worse than a loan with the intent of repayment.
So while it is debatable whether a loan or Chapter 11 is better for the Big Three, a $25 billion loan is definitely better for the taxpayers and the economy of our country.
So I'll end where I began on the quality of the products of Detroit. Before you, Mr. or Ms. Journalist continue to misinform the American public and turn them against one of the great industries that helped build this nation, I must ask you one question. Before you, Mr. or Madam Congressman vote to end health care and retirement benefits for 1 million retirees, eliminate 2.5 million of our nation's jobs, lose the technology that will lead us in the future and create an economic disaster including hundreds of billions of tax dollars lost, I ask this question not in the rhetorical sense. I ask it in the sincere, literal way. Can you tell me, have you driven a Ford lately?
Jim Jackson
Elkins
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forwarded to me from my Ford Regional Director
Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama has doomed the industry, calling it a dinosaur. No Mr. Shelby, you are the dinosaur, with ideas stuck in the '70s, '80s and '90s. You and the uninformed journalist and senators that hold onto myths that are not relevant in today's world.
When you say that the Big Three build vehicles nobody wants to buy, you must have overlooked that GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the U.S. and Ford outsold Honda by 850,000 and Nissan by 1.2 million in the U.S. GM was the world's No. 1 automaker beating Toyota by 3,000 units.
When you claim inferior quality comes from the Big Three, did you realize that Chevy makes the Malibu and Ford makes the Fusion that were both rated over the Camry and Accord by J.D. Power independent survey on initial quality? Did you bother to read the Consumer Report that rated Ford on par with good Japanese automakers.
Did you realize Big Three's gas guzzlers include the 33 mpg Malibu that beats the Accord. And for '09 Ford introduces the Hybrid Fusion whose 39 mpg is the best midsize, beating the Camry Hybrid. Ford's Focus beats the Corolla and Chevy's Cobalt beats the Civic.
When you ask how many times are we going to bail them out you must be referring to 1980. The only Big Three bailout was Chrysler, who paid back $1 billion, plus interest. GM and Ford have never received government aid.
When you criticize the Big Three for building so many pickups, surely you've noticed the attempts Toyota and Nissan have made spending billions to try to get a piece of that pie. Perhaps it bothers you that for 31 straight years Ford's F-Series has been the best selling vehicle. Ford and GM have dominated this market and when you see the new '09 F-150 you'll agree this won't change soon.
Did you realize that both GM and Ford offer more hybrid models than Nissan or Honda. Between 2005 and 2007, Ford alone has invested more than $22 billion in research and development of technologies such as Eco Boost, flex fuel, clean diesel, hybrids, plug in hybrids and hydrogen cars.
It's 2008 and the quality of the vehicles coming out of Detroit are once again the best in the world.
Perhaps Sen. Shelby isn't really that blind. Maybe he realizes the quality shift to American. Maybe it's the fact that his state of Alabama has given so much to land factories from Honda, Hyundai and Mercedes Benz that he is more concerned about their continued growth than he is about the people of our country. Sen. Shelby's disdain for "government subsidies" is very hypocritical. In the early '90s he was the driving force behind a $253 million incentive package to Mercedes. Plus, Alabama agreed to purchase 2,500 vehicles from Mercedes. While the bridge loan the Big Three is requesting will be paid back, Alabama's $180,000-plus per job was pure incentive. Sen. Shelby, not only are you out of touch, you are a self-serving hypocrite, who is prepared to ruin our nation because of lack of knowledge and lack of due diligence in making your opinions and decisions.
After 9/11, the Detroit Three and Harley Davidson gave $40 million-plus emergency vehicles to the recovery efforts. What was given to the 9/11 relief effort by the Asian and European Auto Manufactures? $0 Nada. Zip!
We live in a world of free trade, world economy and we have not been able to produce products as cost efficiently. While the governments of other auto producing nations subsidize their automakers, our government may be ready to force its demise. While our automakers have paid union wages, benefits and legacy debt, our Asian competitors employ cheap la bor. We are at an extreme disadvantage in production cost. Although many UAW concessions begin in 2010, many lawmakers think it's not enough.
Some point the blame to corporate management. I would like to speak of Ford Motor Co. The company has streamlined by reducing our workforce by 51,000 since 2005, closing 17 plants and cutting expenses. Product and future product is excellent and the company is focused on one Ford. This is a company poised for success. Ford product quality and corporate management have improved light years since the nightmare of Jacques Nasser. Thank you Alan Mulally and the best auto company management team in the business.
The financial collapse caused by the secondary mortgage fiasco and the greed of Wall Street has led to a $700 billion bailout of the industry that created the problem. AIG spent nearly $1 million on three company excursions to lavish resorts and hunting destinations. Paulson is saying no to $250 billion foreclosure relief and the whole thing is a mess. So when the Big Three ask for 4 percent of that of the $700 billion, $25 billion to save the country's largest industry, there is obviously oppositions. But does it make sense to reward the culprits of the problem with $700 billion unconditionally, and ignore the victims?
As a Ford dealer, I feel our portion of the $25 billion will never be touched and is not necessary. Fo rd currently has $29 billion of liquidity. However, the effect of a bankruptcy by GM will hurt the suppliers we all do business with. A Chapter 11 bankruptcy by any manufacture would cost retirees their health care and retirements. Chances are GM would recover from Chapter 11 with a better business plan with much less expense. So who foots the bill if GM or all three go Chapter 11? All that extra health care, unemployment, loss of tax base and some forgiven debt goes back to the taxpayer, us. With no chance of repayment, this would be much worse than a loan with the intent of repayment.
So while it is debatable whether a loan or Chapter 11 is better for the Big Three, a $25 billion loan is definitely better for the taxpayers and the economy of our country.
So I'll end where I began on the quality of the products of Detroit. Before you, Mr. or Ms. Journalist continue to misinform the American public and turn them against one of the great industries that helped build this nation, I must ask you one question. Before you, Mr. or Madam Congressman vote to end health care and retirement benefits for 1 million retirees, eliminate 2.5 million of our nation's jobs, lose the technology that will lead us in the future and create an economic disaster including hundreds of billions of tax dollars lost, I ask this question not in the rhetorical sense. I ask it in the sincere, literal way. Can you tell me, have you driven a Ford lately?
Jim Jackson
Elkins
- - - - - - - - -
forwarded to me from my Ford Regional Director
A.K.A. Chicken McNizzle on Old Europe
J.D. Powers and many other Consumer reports aren't worth the paper their thoughs are written on.
When you claim inferior quality comes from the Big Three, did you realize that Chevy makes the Malibu and Ford makes the Fusion that were both rated over the Camry and Accord by J.D. Power independent survey on initial quality? Did you bother to read the Consumer Report that rated Ford on par with good Japanese automakers.
I know 3 people with less than 2 year old Colbalts, aren't happy with the fuel mileage. The 2 people I know with less than 2 year old Civic's say they are good on gas.Did you realize Big Three's gas guzzlers include the...... Chevy's Cobalt beats the Civic.
Owning an 04 F150 I'm kinda dissapointed in the front end styling of the 09's.When you criticize the Big Three for building so many pickups, surely you've noticed the attempts Toyota and Nissan have made spending billions to try to get a peice of that pie. Perhaps it bothers you that for 31 straight years Ford's F-Series has been the best selling vehicle. Ford and GM have dominated this market and when you see the new '09 F-150 you'll agree this won't change soon.
Seriously? and where out of your ass do you figure this? Real world facts say differently.It's 2008 and the quality of the vehicles coming out of Detroit are once again the best in the world.
Tell me why my Uncles's 08 Dodge Ram 4x4 has had both lower ball joints replaced with less that 10k kiloneters on it?
Why did my best friends 08 Colbalt come from the factory with the passanger door rubbing on the rocker panel? A replacement door didn't fix the problem, it was determined the chassis must not be perfectly square. No records of it being damaged in shipping. GM won't replace the vehicle either. How comes this same car has been back to the dealer on 3 seperate occasions to have drivetrain issues resolved with under 15k kilometers on it?
How about another friends 07 Colbalt that had the ABS system fail?
What about another uncle's 08 Dodge caliber that's been in the shop so often they are fed up with their "new" car?
And yet another uncle's 06 Chrysler Sebring has had more new parts on in that you can shake a stick at, wheel bearings, struts, sway bar links broken coil spring, even the rear strut mounts rotted away inside 2 years.
In comparison my 07 Suzuki SX4 has required a new plastic clip for the gas door in 2+ years and 50k kilometers.
Our 07 Grand Vitara has been perfect comming up on 2 years of ownership.
A friends 05 Camry has not been in for any warranty work what so ever coming up on 4 years of ownership.
Numerous Civics, Mazda's and Honda's that I could write about that haven't had any issues.
The big 3 have partially ruined themselves by building sub-par vehicles compared to the imports for the past 10- 15 years. Not to mention most of the vehicles in the Big 3's lineup are horribly ugly.Sen. Shelby, not only are you out of touch, you are a self-serving hypocrite, who is prepared to ruin our nation because of lack of knowledge and lack of due diligence in making your opinions and decisions.
This I can agree on.The financial collapse caused by the secondary mortgage fiasco and the greed of Wall Street has led to a $700 billion bailout of the industry that created the problem. AIG spent nearly $1 million on three company excursions to lavish resorts and hunting destinations. Paulson is saying no to $250 billion foreclosure relief and the whole thing is a mess. So when the Big Three ask for 4 percent of that of the $700 billion, $25 billion to save the country's largest industry, there is obviously oppositions. But does it make sense to reward the culprits of the problem with $700 billion unconditionally, and ignore the victims?
YES! I drive an 04 F150 everyday! Do you want the complete list of repairs it's had so far? It's big!So I'll end where I began on the quality of the products of Detroit. Before you, Mr. or Ms. Journalist continue to misinform the American public and turn them against one of the great industries that helped build this nation, I must ask you one question. Can you tell me, have you driven a Ford lately?
Let's just say it started from new when the windshield was out 3 ( THREE ) times to fix a water leak.
How about the latest? pinholes on the right rear corner of the box rusted through from the inside, Ford's been dragging their heels for the past 5 months on agreeing to fix it even though it falls well within Ford's rust through warranty and they all agree that they do rust through there.
Bottom line is yes, the big 3's corperate mis-management has fucked them over, but couple in the fact that they are not producing the quality of vehicles other manufactures do has not helped their vehicle sales either.
Time are tough all over, and people are not stupid, they are spending their money wisely and buying the best product for their hard earned cash, and guess what? many can't find that in the big 3's products.
On a personal note, I bought 2 brand new vehicles in fall of 06 and winter of 07, there was NOTHING APPEALING in the big 3's model line up to me.
Tell me one other thing, how comes the big 3 cannot sell me a decent well equiped vehicle for a reasonable price? My 07 SX4 has AWD, traction control, ABS, Stability control, AC.....blah blah blah everything... all at a price of only 18K in a European styled package that looks kinda neat.
Where is a similiar product from Detroit?
Send that back to you Regional director and see what he has to say.
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Boscolingus
- Posts: 448
- Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:38 pm
- Location: Valencia, CA
Why is it only on Fiero forums I hear of the craziest shit of car ownership. I mean I have been in the car buisness for years and have never heard ANYTHING the likes of which you describe. Most Fiero owners have more stories than the Sears Tower
Really? Come on
I have strong arguments to the contrary of just about everything you picked apart, but I'm not even going to bother. This is bigger than the Big Three, Housing Market, Airline Industry, and the toothfairy combined.
Our Country is bankrupt... morally as well as financially. Talking about it further only angers me and depressed me even more. It's not really what you said here, but rather that the group conscioiusness of the country is just soft-headed.
I look forward to the day that the population remembers and recognizes that MANUFACTURING built this country - not shuffling papers or making key strokes. Unfortunately I am part of the problem myself, I too file papers and peck at a key board in order to feed myself.
It's just generally a bad, bad time to live in.
Really? Come on
I have strong arguments to the contrary of just about everything you picked apart, but I'm not even going to bother. This is bigger than the Big Three, Housing Market, Airline Industry, and the toothfairy combined.
Our Country is bankrupt... morally as well as financially. Talking about it further only angers me and depressed me even more. It's not really what you said here, but rather that the group conscioiusness of the country is just soft-headed.
I look forward to the day that the population remembers and recognizes that MANUFACTURING built this country - not shuffling papers or making key strokes. Unfortunately I am part of the problem myself, I too file papers and peck at a key board in order to feed myself.
It's just generally a bad, bad time to live in.
A.K.A. Chicken McNizzle on Old Europe
Sorry if the truth hurts.
I laugh at how the manufactures and people for them get all defensive over stuff that was under the manufactures control to start with.
Point the finger where you want, facts speak for themselves.
You have strong arguements on what I said? really? you can argure against work orders?
Seriously, tell me why my 52 thousand dollar truck has a stack of work orders an inch and a half thick and rust pinholes in that they won't fix when it's a known problem and falls under the rust warranty?
I laugh at how the manufactures and people for them get all defensive over stuff that was under the manufactures control to start with.
Point the finger where you want, facts speak for themselves.
You have strong arguements on what I said? really? you can argure against work orders?
Seriously, tell me why my 52 thousand dollar truck has a stack of work orders an inch and a half thick and rust pinholes in that they won't fix when it's a known problem and falls under the rust warranty?
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Boscolingus
- Posts: 448
- Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:38 pm
- Location: Valencia, CA
Whats the VIN #? I'll run an Oasis on your truck and see what the dealership is jotting down in thier notes for every visit. You can't blame a company as a whole because of a POS dealership. Where do you live anyways? I have sold many new and used 2004 F-150's in my lifetime, not only do I not recal them being $52,000 at any point in time, but I do not recall any rust issues, or even recalls pertaining to rust. And yes, you do have a 5 year / unlimited mileage corrosion warranty. If it is not honored then that is an issue. Perhaps rust is a common thing out by you, never have seen it here in L.A., but again, thats just out here.
A.K.A. Chicken McNizzle on Old Europe
East coast canada. rust claims everything eventually.
52k after delivery, taxes and stuff, thats the amount I financed, $52,447- sticker price 44k. Still have the window sticker if you don't believe me. I don't talk shit, when I say something I can pretty much always back it up.
Check to see if theres a recall or service bulletin to remove a stick on rubberized sound dampner from the inside rear quarter on the passanger side of the box, that apparently according to the dealers here is the reason rust starts from the inside in that location.
52k after delivery, taxes and stuff, thats the amount I financed, $52,447- sticker price 44k. Still have the window sticker if you don't believe me. I don't talk shit, when I say something I can pretty much always back it up.
Check to see if theres a recall or service bulletin to remove a stick on rubberized sound dampner from the inside rear quarter on the passanger side of the box, that apparently according to the dealers here is the reason rust starts from the inside in that location.
My family's owned many fords. For varying reasons, but mostly because they are cheap. At least, they were initially cheap... There's a few mechanics that definitely could afford nicer cars because of us...
The 99 Focus was worthless. We bought it at 30,000k, and by the time it had turned 180,000k, my mother had sunk $15,000 in repairs--NOT including the recalls. It got piss-poor mileage throughout it's life until my brother managed to flip it onto it's lid.
We had a 1995 Nissan Quest (merc. Villager, bought new) which shat out 3 transmissions while under warranty, and another 2 off before my father chopped it up for parts for the next one:
We had a 1997 Mercury Villager which toasted a motor, AND cracked a transmission housing.
We had a 1991 Mercury Topaz... 3 wiring fires later, my brother abandoned it on a sideroad.
I had a 1992 Mazda Protege (Ford Escort), which blew out 3 trannies and 2 motors before (while 5th gear was howling like a baboon) I managed to plaster the front-end all over a concrete divider--saving me yet another repair...
By contrast, we've all switched to japanese/euro imports. My brother owns a 98 Accord (which gets 39 mpg--clocked by Y.T). I own a 1997 Corolla which clocks 42mpg. My mum owns an 05 VW TDI which gets 51mpg. My brother owns a 91 Golf which gets 38mpg.
NONE of the import cars have given us any drivetrain problems. NONE of the imports rotted out to the extent that the domestics did. NONE of the imports cost even a fraction of what the domestics cost to maintain.
It's well and good to blather on and on about American quality... But spit-shining a turd won't make it smell any better. American cars are--frankly--junk.
If they've managed to clean up their act in the past couple years, BFD. The damage is done. Too little, too late and all that.
I feel for the people who are facing long lineups at the EI office--I really do. But nobody should be surprised by this. GM's market share has been in free fall for the past 5 years. FREE FALL. The only thing bouying them up is their fleet and heavy machine sales.
The 99 Focus was worthless. We bought it at 30,000k, and by the time it had turned 180,000k, my mother had sunk $15,000 in repairs--NOT including the recalls. It got piss-poor mileage throughout it's life until my brother managed to flip it onto it's lid.
We had a 1995 Nissan Quest (merc. Villager, bought new) which shat out 3 transmissions while under warranty, and another 2 off before my father chopped it up for parts for the next one:
We had a 1997 Mercury Villager which toasted a motor, AND cracked a transmission housing.
We had a 1991 Mercury Topaz... 3 wiring fires later, my brother abandoned it on a sideroad.
I had a 1992 Mazda Protege (Ford Escort), which blew out 3 trannies and 2 motors before (while 5th gear was howling like a baboon) I managed to plaster the front-end all over a concrete divider--saving me yet another repair...
By contrast, we've all switched to japanese/euro imports. My brother owns a 98 Accord (which gets 39 mpg--clocked by Y.T). I own a 1997 Corolla which clocks 42mpg. My mum owns an 05 VW TDI which gets 51mpg. My brother owns a 91 Golf which gets 38mpg.
NONE of the import cars have given us any drivetrain problems. NONE of the imports rotted out to the extent that the domestics did. NONE of the imports cost even a fraction of what the domestics cost to maintain.
It's well and good to blather on and on about American quality... But spit-shining a turd won't make it smell any better. American cars are--frankly--junk.
If they've managed to clean up their act in the past couple years, BFD. The damage is done. Too little, too late and all that.
I feel for the people who are facing long lineups at the EI office--I really do. But nobody should be surprised by this. GM's market share has been in free fall for the past 5 years. FREE FALL. The only thing bouying them up is their fleet and heavy machine sales.
"Oh, this is too good. She thinks you're a servant... Cause you're black! This is greatest moment in my miserable life... Sooo-ey! I LOVE RACISM!"
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Boscolingus
- Posts: 448
- Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:38 pm
- Location: Valencia, CA
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p8ntman442
- cant get enough of this site!
- Posts: 3289
- Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:37 pm
My DD is a 98 ford escort 4dr sedan.
196k miles
Replacement parts:
timing belt at 175k
Fuel pump (did as PM, was not bad)
Tie Rod end
Tires
Brakes
spark plugs and wires
Best damn car I have ever driven.
Previous DD was an 88 grand am retired with 235k on it. Iron duke and Th125 lasted forever. The only issues it had was the repeated replacement of alternators and water pumps that were MADE IN CHINA.
Both saw over 30 mpg regularly.
STFU americans cant build quality.
My 88 F150 with 4.9 is going strong.
196k miles
Replacement parts:
timing belt at 175k
Fuel pump (did as PM, was not bad)
Tie Rod end
Tires
Brakes
spark plugs and wires
Best damn car I have ever driven.
Previous DD was an 88 grand am retired with 235k on it. Iron duke and Th125 lasted forever. The only issues it had was the repeated replacement of alternators and water pumps that were MADE IN CHINA.
Both saw over 30 mpg regularly.
STFU americans cant build quality.
My 88 F150 with 4.9 is going strong.
"I wanna make a porno starring us. Well, not just us, also these two foreign bitches."