Gran Damn

[ericjon262]

Probably not possible, but could you move all the stuff over from the Cobalt shifter to the GA shifter base?

I don't see why they couldn't be, but I also don't see any advantage when the GA shifter is brand new, and the cobalt shifter is worn. the idea behind the cobalt adapter plate is more so that I could offer them for sale potentially, as the cobalt parts are way more prevalent than the GA parts.

Let me know if you have any questions switching the 60* bellhousing over the XFE F23. I'm curious how the transmission mounts will be compatible. If you tear this car apart and don't have it back together in a WEEK, you're hopelessly lost in projects.

I did the swap on my Fiero, I haven't decided whether or not I'll swap the bellhousing, or swap the gears in the case. the rear mount should work either way, I'm not sure about the others. the goal is to make the swap as swift as possible, by planning every detail as much as possible, and using as many OEM parts as possible. I may even consider picking up another subframe to build it all on and have it setup for a very quick exchange.

[Emc209i]

Oh I misunderstood, the new shifter is a GA shifter. My mistake. Carry on.

[Honest Don]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Vss7W ... wWayTrucks

the poor tech who had to remove bits of (not so)Grand Am from that garbage truck after the publicity stunt...

It’s a new/demo truck, so it hasn’t been on neighborhood duty yet. They make them there.

[Shaun41178(2)]

Ran across this 5 spd swap vid on accident

https://youtu.be/Z9HFsqaeFac

[ericjon262]

It’s a new/demo truck, so it hasn’t been on neighborhood duty yet. They make them there.

yeah, I get that, but stuff still tends to get into places it shouldn't, and cause premature wear, or binding, all for a publicity stunt.

Ran across this 5 spd swap vid on accident

https://youtu.be/Z9HFsqaeFac

Kyle has an F40, but hydraulically, it uses most of the same parts I will need to use, thanks for the link.

[ericjon262]

I've been looking up wiring diagrams to determine which changes need to take place for the 5 speed swap.

I'm also looking into a few other things that I may work out. I'm vaguely interested in converting to a drive by wire throttle, because I have an LX9 plenum with DBW throttle, this would eliminate the need for a adapter plate to run a cable throttle, eliminate the cruise control module, but also require the addition of a TAC module. I also have the option of enabling dual bank o2 sensors, not sure whether that would be worth anything or not.

I've documented many of the differences between GM V6 (non 4.3) PCM's here:

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inject ... CM-pinouts

Clutch switch wiring, I have no plans to wire in any kind of 2nd gear start nonsense.





TAC Module and throttle wiring





O2 sensor wiring



I ordered the CV axles about 5 minutes ago, and my clutch pedal should be here tomorrow. I'm seriously considering picking up another front subframe to mock up the mechanical aspects of the five speed swap on, this would allow me to get as many issues ironed out, and make everything go smoother. Later this week, I'm going to pull the bin file from the PCM and make the required changes for the 5 speed. I'm also going to work on a break out harness for the VSS and reverse lights.

I'm going to wire the clutch/start safety switch inline with the start relay. oddly enough, the V6 and I4 use very concepts for the start signal, the I4 sends power from the switch, to the starter solenoid. the V6 uses a trigger from the PCM to trigger a relay, which then trips the solenoid. if I send the signal from the PCM to the clutch switch, it should work flawlessly, as an added bonus, the PCM is located next to the clutch pedal, which should greatly simplify the wiring.

I4 starting circuit:



V6 starting Circuit



I'm also considering modifying a LZ9 front exhaust manifold to fit the 3400, it's a much better design compared to the 3400 part, more like a header. I'm considering this more as a proof of concept to see how well one of the manifolds will hold up to welding, and heat cycling thereafter. I'll keep the stock front manifold and crossover as a backup if the LZ9 part fails.

I really need to start figuring out what I want to do for the clutch, the bully stage 5(6?) in the fiero isn't bad at all, with the same transmission. but it was expensive, and took for ever to get to me. I'm open to suggestions.

Stuff I have

Shifter
Flywheel
Master cylinder
HTOB
clutch line
clutch anticipate switch
shift/select cables,
Tuner
XFI F23
Clutch pedal starter safety switch
Clutch pedal
CV Axles
wire connectors for VSS, Reverse lights, clutch switches.
Metric F23 for the bellhousing

Stuff on the way:
Anaerobic sealant
clutch pedal pad
Clutch

Stuff I still need:
mounts
AC Parts?
Intermediate shaft seal


edited to adjust parts lists.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Does the 2nd gear start circuit doesn't actually DO anything, right? There's no 1st gear lockout solenoid on the shifter, right? From the diagram it looks like it's just an indicator. Even if you wired it up, it would probably never light, as the PCM would need to get that input via serial data from the Traction Control/ABS module. NW9 is traction control, if you hadn't already looked that up.

The I4 starter circuit is the same EFI crank circuit that GM installed in their entire product line since they started building fuel injected cars. The only difference between that and the Fiero crank circuit is the fuse on the crank wire.

The fact that the V6 crank circuit is significantly different than the I4 crank circuit is just GM silliness... Implement a dash-to-axle engineering change that requires differentiating the product way early on the assembly line just to have a "nicer" crank circuit on a different engine. No wonder they went bankrupt. The earlier a product has to be differentiated on the assembly line, the more the option that requires that differentiation costs.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Metric F23 for the bellhousing

You probably need to deal with this pretty early on!

You in the market for a dual disk clutch?

[pmbrunelle]

If you're running a production-based PCM (vs. aftermarket), do you think you'll be able to tune the DBW such that it isn't too laggy?

DBW has ruined driveability on many cars.

[The Dark Side of Will]

If you're running a production-based PCM (vs. aftermarket), do you think you'll be able to tune the DBW such that it isn't too laggy?

DBW has ruined driveability on many cars.

I've driven different cars from Toyota & GM that were both imperceptible AND completely atrocious. A friend has had similar experiences across GM's product line. BMW had drive by wire available on their M30 "big block" I6's in the early '90's that was indistinguishable from a cable throttle. In light of these experiences, I think driveability problems have nothing to do with DBW hardware and are purely the result of terrible calibration. I suspect primarily resulting from bean counters and stupid managers cutting budgets for vehicle integration rather than any engineering incompetence.

[ericjon262]

I haven't investigated throttle curves yet, it's on the list. I would like to bench test it prior to installing on the car to make sure it not only works, but isn't ridiculously slow.

in the link below, a guy shows the difference between two throttle tunes on the same TB, makes a huge difference.

youtube.com/watch?v=VLsY7dYjenY

[ericjon262]

Metric F23 for the bellhousing

You probably need to deal with this pretty early on!

You in the market for a dual disk clutch?

I somehow overlooked this earlier... not for the Gran Damn, it'll be a bit simpler than that. There are two metric bell transmissions relatively close to me, I just need to go get them.

I got the clutch pedal in, and while putting it with the rest of the 5 speed parts, I found that I already ordered a clutch safety switch, so that's one less thing to worry with later.

[ericjon262]

although I haven't poked my head under the car to check yet, I'm 99% sure on of the joints in my right side CV axle is starting to fail, if I were to guess, I would say it's the inner joint based on it not passing into the steering wheel severely. I ordered a clutch, and a few of the smaller parts, I'm going to call a junkyard south of me to see about picking up a subframe to mock everything up on, because I'm having trouble finding mounts.

[Emc209i]

I've got Kent Moore J-44470 and J-44375 if you need them when the time comes.

[ericjon262]

Does the 2nd gear start circuit doesn't actually DO anything, right? There's no 1st gear lockout solenoid on the shifter, right? From the diagram it looks like it's just an indicator. Even if you wired it up, it would probably never light, as the PCM would need to get that input via serial data from the Traction Control/ABS module. NW9 is traction control, if you hadn't already looked that up.

The I4 starter circuit is the same EFI crank circuit that GM installed in their entire product line since they started building fuel injected cars. The only difference between that and the Fiero crank circuit is the fuse on the crank wire.

The fact that the V6 crank circuit is significantly different than the I4 crank circuit is just GM silliness... Implement a dash-to-axle engineering change that requires differentiating the product way early on the assembly line just to have a "nicer" crank circuit on a different engine. No wonder they went bankrupt. The earlier a product has to be differentiated on the assembly line, the more the option that requires that differentiation costs.

I somehow seemed to have missed this post too...

I wasn't planning on wiring up the 2nd gear start stuff because I didn't think it would do anything, and even if it did, I would probably disable it, I'll takeoff in whatever gear I feel like. I hadn't yet looked at traction control diagrams, that could be important, thanks!

agreed on the starter circuits, that seemed really odd and pointless to me too, the starter solenoid doesn't draw more current on the V6 compared to the I4, there's literally no reason for it. it should make it easier for me to wire the new switches in though.

I've got Kent Moore J-44470 and J-44375 if you need them when the time comes.

I may take you up on that, I've been debating on whether or not I want to split the cases and swap the bellhousings, or just install a 3.84 ratio trans. it's not a huge change in ratio, but 3.63 is already pretty low too.

__

I did pick up a few goodies this week, and I ordered a clutch, at this point, I need the intermediate shaft seal (if I split the cases), a 4T45 E trans connector (so I can make a plug and play harness) I might also order a new AC compressor and other AC parts, if I have it apart, it would be an ideal time to fix all of it.



I went to the junkyard and checked every 5 speed GM car for the clutch switch connectors I needed, I was able to score both fir free.99 I need to depin them and see if I can get the terminals, look to be metripacs.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I wasn't planning on wiring up the 2nd gear start stuff because I didn't think it would do anything, and even if it did, I would probably disable it, I'll takeoff in whatever gear I feel like. I hadn't yet looked at traction control diagrams, that could be important, thanks!

Point being that unless there's a solenoid that mechanically blocks access to 1st gear, AND you wire it up, it's literally impossible for the 2nd gear start circuit to do anything but light a light on the dash... if you wire that up.

a 4T45 E trans connector (so I can make a plug and play harness)

Have you checked Ballenger?
https://www.bmotorsports.com/

[ericjon262]

I wasn't planning on wiring up the 2nd gear start stuff because I didn't think it would do anything, and even if it did, I would probably disable it, I'll takeoff in whatever gear I feel like. I hadn't yet looked at traction control diagrams, that could be important, thanks!

Point being that unless there's a solenoid that mechanically blocks access to 1st gear, AND you wire it up, it's literally impossible for the 2nd gear start circuit to do anything but light a light on the dash... if you wire that up.

that's more or less what I meant. I think the shifter has the capability of adding a solenoid lockout for it, but I have no intention of going through the trouble of trying to figure out how to add it or make it work, because it's dumb.

a 4T45 E trans connector (so I can make a plug and play harness)

Have you checked Ballenger?
https://www.bmotorsports.com/

not yet, but I do regularly order from them, their connector kits are the best value I have found for connectors.

[ericjon262]

well, I hit a pothole a couple of weeks ago and destroyed my front right wheel, kinda bummed that I had to spend money on a new rim, because I HATE the rims on the car... because I hated them so much, I decided to ditch them and get something I liked better, so I picked up a set of Grand Prix GTP wheels:



I need to start taking better pictures...

fortunately/unfortunately, the new wheels are 17's, and the old wheels, with new tires, are 16's... hopefully I can sell the old tires and recoup some of the cost of the new parts.

In other news, a junkyard around the corner from my house sold me a new front subframe for $100, now I can mock up the entire 5 speed swap, and have it ready to go with the current powertrain still in the car.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Didn't go for the Impala SS or Grand Prix GXP wheels?

[ericjon262]

Didn't go for the Impala SS or Grand Prix GXP wheels?

no, I don't really like the way they look, and I don't think they would fit, these are already a close fit without spacers, long term I'll need to address that, for now, I plan to keep driving it.