Real Fiero Tech

Got the 3 bolt filter adapter inlet ported over the weekend:

Before:





During:





After:





WAY better than as GM cast it. That should be the last metal I need to cut from that... it's going to anodizing this week.

Also getting to the point at which I need to finish the valley harnesses so I can bolt up the intake manifold.

The 2006 Northstar has a valley harness for the crank & cam sensors and the dual knock sensors, in addition to the "individually wrapped" crank wire & starter cable that have always been there. The valley harness has a production break to simplify assembling the engine separate from the main line. I need to reorganize it a bit as I want the production break at the opposite end of the engine and I need to free up more wire to reach the cam sensor's new position.

Two wire knock sensor connector



Three wire crank & cam sensor connectors



Ten cavity production break



If I can reorganize the accessory drive the way I want to, then I'll be able to swap the top bracket for the bottom one



Tried the '06 coil pack on my '99- heads... Both coil packs are the same... there's no left or right.

Doesn't fit this way



Doesn't fit this way



After some quick work with the band saw



Then I found that... Oooops... the coils are at least 1/2" too short to reach the plugs even when they're not on their mounting plate. I guess GM tightened up the packaging envelope for the '06 cam covers significantly vs older ones and was able to use shorter coils.

Coil plan B: See if Magnecore will send me a set of wires with the Northstar plug boots but unterminated on the other ends... Then I'll set up LS coils into packs per bank like FieroGuru did and then terminate the wires appropriately for the mounting locations of the coils.

Coil plan C: Re-use my current complete Magnecore wire set by assembling 8 LS coils into a coil pack resembling the '93-'99 waste spark coil pack. I'm not wild about this as it looks more cluttered than the other options, but beggars can't be choosers.

oOOoOh... had a bunch of minor parts, both cast and 6061--including the A/C compressor fitting I had welded up in (early; horry shiet!) 2019--anodized, for S&G's. Pics this weekend. I requested clear, but apparently that's more of a hope than a specification. The 6061 parts came out fine, but with more of a matte luster than the cerakote. The cast parts actually came out dark grey! The A/C compressor welded fitting came out with the virgin surface looking like the 6061 parts and the weld beads looking like the castings! Wild! Pics this weekend. I was also pretty surprised that the anodizing provider got them done overnight rather than by the end of the week.

Edit: This fitting:

The Dark Side of Will wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:20 pm Also was able to get the compressor fittings turned into a single weldment.

The Dark Side of Will wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:25 pm
Coil plan C: Re-use my current complete Magnecore wire set by assembling 8 LS coils into a coil pack resembling the '93-'99 waste spark coil pack. I'm not wild about this as it looks more cluttered than the other options, but beggars can't be choosers.

I think this is the most reasonable... I can use the Magnecor wires I already have and attach LS coils to the baseplate from a '99- ICM and the resulting assembly will bolt right onto existing bosses on the rear cam cover and the wires will be the right lengths. A dealership in Nebraska just had pretty much the last baseplate in GM's system, so I snagged it.

I ordered a bunch of SamCo formed silicone hose bends from an outfit in the UK for use in my brake booster vacuum line and the heater lines, as well as the coolant line from the oil cooler to the thermostat housing inlet. After being on order for since 5/07, they finally shipped today

Edit: I ordered from SamCo in the UK because they had Fucking Green Bitches! which is the color I wanted for cooling system hoses, while US suppliers only had blue, black and sometimes red.

Did you get some ninja hoses?

I think we all enjoy going along for the ride of problem solving with you here. Can't wait to see it buttoned up and on the road!

The Dark Side of Will wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:25 pm

Then I found that... Oooops... the coils are at least 1/2" too short to reach the plugs even when they're not on their mounting plate. I guess GM tightened up the packaging envelope for the '06 cam covers significantly vs older ones and was able to use shorter coils.

Coil plan B: See if Magnecore will send me a set of wires with the Northstar plug boots but unterminated on the other ends... Then I'll set up LS coils into packs per bank like FieroGuru did and then terminate the wires appropriately for the mounting locations of the coils.

Coil plan C: Re-use my current complete Magnecore wire set by assembling 8 LS coils into a coil pack resembling the '93-'99 waste spark coil pack. I'm not wild about this as it looks more cluttered than the other options, but beggars can't be choosers.

eHoward wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:09 pm Did you get some ninja hoses?

NINJA-GREEN-CAMO-1-1024x683.jpg

I wouldn't be able to show them off because no one would be able to see them!

eHoward wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:12 pm I think we all enjoy going along for the ride of problem solving with you here. Can't wait to see it buttoned up and on the road!

The Dark Side of Will wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:25 pm
Then I found that... Oooops... the coils are at least 1/2" too short to reach the plugs even when they're not on their mounting plate. I guess GM tightened up the packaging envelope for the '06 cam covers significantly vs older ones and was able to use shorter coils.

Coil plan B: See if Magnecore will send me a set of wires with the Northstar plug boots but unterminated on the other ends... Then I'll set up LS coils into packs per bank like FieroGuru did and then terminate the wires appropriately for the mounting locations of the coils.

Coil plan C: Re-use my current complete Magnecore wire set by assembling 8 LS coils into a coil pack resembling the '93-'99 waste spark coil pack. I'm not wild about this as it looks more cluttered than the other options, but beggars can't be choosers.

Thanks!
The voyage of discovery leads to... discovery! Try to enjoy the trip. Mind the gap.

A dealership in Nebraska had the last ICM baseplate in GM's system. Of course its been discontinued since the last time GM used it in a vehicle was 1999. I balked at $65 and he immediately cut the price to $30. I guess he wanted his shelf space back. That's on the way to use to build up a pack of LS coils.

Glamour shots of the anodized parts. I realized I forgot to get a closeup of the A/C Compressor fitting... oh well, next week.





I asked for clear anodizing and the provider (I think) did everything in the same bath. The cast components came out dark gray, while the 6061 components came out clear. The A/C Compressor fitting as a welded assembly came out with the 6061 areas clear and the weld fillets dark grey. I still need to ask the welder what filler rod he used.

I'm starting on some harness stuff... I'm relooming the existing sub-harnesses that I'll re-use. I'll be cleaning the wires and using clear shrink tube on them... add a splash of color and shit to a shiny engine. ON previous harnesses I worked a lot with Weather-Pack, Metri-Pack and Micro-Pack connectors. This is my first time playing with the newer Delphi GT connectors. This is a 10 cavity GT 150 as the production break for the valley harness that connects to the crank & cam sensors and the dual knock sensors. Anybody want to lay odds the knock sensors don't like 11.5 compression?

Hah... my dumb ass just noticed that LS coils have a completely different terminal than the Northstar waste spark coil pack, which means that the MagneCor wires won't work with LS coils. Sweeeet.

Do terminal adapters exist?

Holley has a boot & terminal kit... maybe I can reterminate the MagneCor wires. Maybe Magnecor will build me a set if I just ask for LS boots & terminals on a set of Caddy wires.

https://www.holley.com/products/ignitio ... s/170135-8

Was able to get out to see the machinist today. He's had a busy summer so far; took the family on a vacay to Montana a couple weeks back.

I had a fancy way figured out to modify any old 142 tooth flexplate (well... any flat enough 142T flexplate) to bolt to the back of the PTT flywheel. That's a complicated fussy bit of machining and the unit/assembly would need to be balanced afterward.
I sharpened the pencil a bit and determined that even with the worst case situation of the crank flange being 0.020" proud of the bellhousing face, I could stack the PTT flywheel on top of a 0.100" thick flexplate and still have 0.035 clearance to the Getrag output bearing boss inside the bellhousing. I measured my engine and the crank flange is actually 0.012-0.015 BELOW the bellhousing surface, so stacking the flywheel on top of the flexplate should leave me with 0.065 or so between the clutch and the transmission case.

To that end, I checked my 11mm Cadillac flexplate against the PTT and TIlton flywheels and the BOTH FIT PERFECTLY.



So the only thing that has to be done is drill the crank bolt circle and bore the crank pilot bore into the flywheel. I left him my spare forged crank to use for fitment. The crank pilot is only a smidge thicker than the flexplate, so an alignment tool may be necessary to locate the flywheel on the shallow hole drilled into the center of the crank pilot.

Hopefully that'll be done next weekend and I can get the clutch bolted up. Then it'll be on to the throw out bearing holder and THEN mating the engine and trans!
I'm definitely using modeling clay to make sure my clearance estimate is good, though.

Flywheel was ready this weekend, so I got a BUNCH of test fitting done.

Stock forged crank flexplate for use with PTT flywheel





I told the machinist to leave a sharp corner on the back side of the crank pilot bore, since the Northstar crank pilot is very short. He did that and stoned the back surface to deburr... Also leaving sharp corners on the bolt holes. I hit those with a countersink, while keeping the sharp corner on the pilot bore.



Lol... I made spacers and snagged longer bolts for the engine stand. While I may be able to install the engine to the stand with clutch, it turns out I still need to remove the engine from the stand in order to install the clutch.





ACT ATGM14 clutch alignment tool worked like a charm, although it's a tight fit into the Northstar crank and difficult to install.
On Summit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/acl-atgm14



A key problem I noticed early is that some of the bolt heads hit the flexplate. More on that in a minute.



Here's the transmission fitted:



This is with the stock TOB holder installed inside the bellhousing. This dimension should come down about 0.350" once I get my new TOB holder finished.



Took all the bolts out and it didn't pop off on its own, so nothing is binding.



I've been forgetting to do the one slight block mod required to bolt a Northstar up to a conventional Metric Bellhousing transmission... so here it is graphically:



Here's how flat the diaphragm spring fingers are when the unit is bolted all the way down. This is why I need a taller than stock TOB holder.



The throw out travel is 0.300", and all the manufacturers caution strongly against overtraveling throw out, as that can damage the clutch. I guess the damage is not from the diaphragm spring fingers contacting the disks (possibly from stretching the spring too far?)



I applied strip caulk to the transmission bellhousing. After one failed attempt, I got a measurement by applying the wax paper packing on top of the caulk so it wouldn't stick to the pressure plate cover. You can see the speed holes in the cover in relief in the caulk. This sample calipered at 0.080, so I have even a bit more clearance than estimated. Yay for conservative design and measurements.



Above I mentioned that the bolt heads hit the flexplate. Once I completed the clutch test fit, I looked into that. The anti-rotation features on the bolt flanges all cleared the flexplate. However, this one was REALLY close. That's a 0.005 feeler gauge that didn't make it quite all the way through. A 0.004 feeler will go all the way through, but held by friction.

In this shot, I had already skimmed the bolt heads to clear.



Now, check this out:

This is 180 opposite the one above



Gauge pins tell me that gap is between 0.050 and 0.054. That's almost FIFTY thou larger than the gap on the other side. Considering the tolerances of the flywheel, I think the difference is ENTIRELY in the flexplate. That's 0.050 of axial TIR across the stamped metal part. Keep in mind that GM bolted a 4 lug torque converter that was considerably flatter than that up to this flexplate and... sent it. Enjoy your Cadillac, Sir.

I'm not saying GM's tolerances are crap... This part is a potato chip, but it's a FLEXIBLE potato chip compared to a torque converter. Just pull it flat with the bolts and apparently it lasts well enough that the 4L80E transmissions acquired a reputation for being consummate anvils. Absolute units. Bulletproof. Better is the enemy of good enough, and GM knows EXACTLY where good enough is for this critical interface. Another aspect of this is that the ring gear was probably flat when it had a potato chipped stamping welded to it. That means when the potato chipped flexplate is pulled flat on the converter, the ring gear now has axial runout... and apparently that does not matter either.

Here's fit checking the first article TOB holder on my actual transmission



Here's a video of cycling the same. I didn't realize it until after I sat down to write this post, but it reminds me of something. I'm trying to remember what.

https://i.imgur.com/oFZpDHd.mp4

Bonus shot of the flywheel. Yeah, I was just using 4 bolts for the fit checks. I'll use 8 for the flight assembly. Those are the 0.880 long LS flexplate bolts. Those bolts are the PERFECT length when using only the flywheel. When stacking the flywheel on top of the flexplate, now they have 0.500 thread engagement in a crank flange that's 0.570 thick. I need to call ARP to determine if that's ok or if I have to buy the 1.075 long bolts and trim them down to 0.980 or so. A 25mm bolt would be the PERFECT length for this configuration, but ARP doesn't make any 25mm 11x1.5 flywheel bolts.



BONUS ROUND:

Fucking Green Bitches! hoses finally hit my doorstep over the weekend... 3 months after placing the order

Somehow I missed this glamor shot on my prior upload:

that looks awesome! getting close to in the car now! that is one sexy looking clutch/flywheel, it's almost a shame it will be covered up...

Yeah, it looks SAHWEEEEEET! I'm really stoked to have gotten to this point after sweating a lot of fiddly measurements to be sure it would fit.

Yeah, I need one of those minimalist #becauseracecar bellhousings that shows off the clutch through a bunch of speed holes.
(And then a scatter shield to liiiiiiiterally cover my ass)

To Do:

• POR-15 damaged paint in engine bay, fuel tank expansion volume tubes, heater & A/C tubes
• Assemble heater, A/C & BBV tubes & engine bay hoses
• Install oil filter adapter with caps & low profile street elbow on the oil pressure sensor location
• Install water manifold
• Install clutch
• Install crank damper
• Re-Loom valley harnesses
• Install intake manifold
• Install TOB Holder and transmission
• Build coil pack
• Build engine harness
• Develop clutch slave
• ...

I wonder just how wide of a tolerance gm is working with on a flex plate. And how much of a contribution that makes when they break?

The Dark Side of Will wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:57 am Yeah, it looks SAHWEEEEEET! I'm really stoked to have gotten to this point after sweating a lot of fiddly measurements to be sure it would fit.

Yeah, I need one of those minimalist #becauseracecar bellhousings that shows off the clutch through a bunch of speed holes.
(And then a scatter shield to liiiiiiiterally cover my ass)

no kidding! measure twice cut once is real with the kinda money you're dropping on your powertrain RN, so far it looks like it's paying off. I bet the engine is going to rev like mad with the tiniest of throttle blips!

Honest Don wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:09 pm I wonder just how wide of a tolerance gm is working with on a flex plate. And how much of a contribution that makes when they break?

I don't know... but I'm just using it as a ring gear mount.
I've seen engine thrust bearings damaged by the torque converter ballooning from high temperatures... The worst adverse effect I've seen on flexplates is cracking around the converter bolt holes.

ericjon262 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:08 am
no kidding! measure twice cut once is real with the kinda money you're dropping on your powertrain RN, so far it looks like it's paying off. I bet the engine is going to rev like mad with the tiniest of throttle blips!

I wanna scare sport bikes at stop lights

The Dark Side of Will wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:38 pm

Honest Don wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:09 pm I wonder just how wide of a tolerance gm is working with on a flex plate. And how much of a contribution that makes when they break?

I don't know... but I'm just using it as a ring gear mount.
I've seen engine thrust bearings damaged by the torque converter ballooning from high temperatures... The worst adverse effect I've seen on flexplates is cracking around the converter bolt holes.

My concern is for mostly selfish reasons

(Not my photo)
Ballooning is more of a charge pressure issue