LS4 V8 DoD 4T65-E TAPShift swap underway (pics inside)

Real tech discussion on design, fabrication, testing, development of custom or adapted parts for Pontiac Fieros. Not questions about the power a CAI will give.

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blkcofy
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:46 am

Post by blkcofy »

FINAL CHAPTER

OKAY, Okay, okay....I've had my car back from Ryan for a little over 2 weeks now! I've gotten over the sheer thrill of having it back and can now provide an appropriately balanced report on Ryan's work and the performance of one of the first stock LS4 swaps into Fiero (now officially known as the 87'/05' Pontiac Fiero GXP!).

Ryan is the mutha-phukin' man! This swap looks like it rolled off the assembly line...probably even better!
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Once I finally decide on what paint scheme I'm going with this fall, I will color match the engine cover to the paint job. But hell, one might argue to leave the engine cover off all together as tight and neat as it looks!
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But there's something to be said, when people open up the rear deck lid and see the 5.3L V8 glaring at them and the "Ohhhh Sh*%!!" comments it creates. So the cover stays!

As a recap, beyond the engine swap which included the 4T65eHD TapShift tranny and custom paddle shifters, Ryan and I completely re-built the suspension down to the tie rods, springs, coil-overs, reconditioned control arms, control bars, polys, pretty much everything. Also installed rebuilt '88 Fiero calipers and 12" Corvette rotors, steel braided brake lines, and a custom cat back only exhaust with Corvette exhaust tips. A staggered 17/18 inch rim setup with 225/40 in front and 265/30 in the back with a lowered stance.
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I drove it from Indiana back to Cincinnati, with a 102 degree fever sick as a dog, but with a smile on my face from ear to ear. My wife was following me and my 6 year old daughter was riding with me, so I didn't really open it up. Got alot of looks from passers by, especially whenever I zipped pass them at XX mph. No races or imaginary challenges that first road trip...thank goodness. With no exhaust, it's a bit loud but not ignorant loud. The only time its an issue is when I hear it clearly shift from 4 cylinders to 8 cylinders via the DoD setup and whenever I go from a point of acceleration to a coast...you clearly hear the gurgle-gurgle from the exhaust. If you've every gone boating, and witness some fancy cat put in his Twin V8 Cigarette Race Boat in the water...that's what it sounds like. One last Ohio e-check, at it's off w/ the cats and on with performance mufflers!! I can't be a "sleeper" car with the thunder of Thor crashing under the hood!!

Automatic shifts are deliberate and crisp. Using the paddles is actually kind of fun, but it kills my gas mileage as I tend to let the rpms run up to 3500-4000 before I shift versus it never goes above 2500 in auto unless I'm gunning it on the freeway, and even then at 80 mph (on roads with 75mph speed limits mind you) it's cruises just under 2000 rpm.

The only changes that probably needs to be fine tuned is to have the DoD shift much later in the power band, as I think it shifts a bit too soon. The other improvement is that while Ryan was able to turn off all the computer signals like ABS brakes, traction control, etc. the engine code has a default setting that whenever the tires have excessive spin, it throws the car in neutral, until you get back into it. So I've learned (learning) to ease into the launches with a slight tire chirp instead of stomping on it. Ryan is working with HP Tuners to fix both issues.

Brake power is awesome, much improved from the Grand Am kit that I had on the car originally...and the car comes alive like a bat out of hell. Mind you, my reference points are the previous 2.8L V6 that was in the car, and my 2000 Dinan 540 BMW 6 speed. This car out guns my big sedan with NO PROBLEM! Handling is very tight. I was expecting a really rock hard ride, but it's not bad at all unless I hit a pot hole. The one thing I must do before I put it on the track at Mid Ohio this summer is fix the play I'm feeling in the steering. I think it's about a 1/4 to 1/2 inch play in the steering, which is very noticeable at about 110 mph during a semi-aggressive evasive maneuver on the freeway. (Hypothetically speaking of course!). I've been searching this site to see if others have had issues with the rack and pinion steering (21 years old!!) and what the fixes could be, short of a total replacement...which might not be a bad idea given my "hypothetical" intended speeds.

At this point, I actually have been challenged once so far, by a 2006 Corvette, by the looks of the headlights. I pulled up on him. He gave me the "yeah, right dude" look. I threw the car in neutral and revved the engine (did I say I was challenged? I meant I challenged someone! :angel: ) He did the ole grip the steering wheel move and revved his vette' with the type of confidence that would soon be shattered. It was only a light to light thing, but I had to have put at least 1 1/2 car lengths between us and pulled in front of him, before he could recover. After he pulled up beside me, his dropped jaws told the whole story! My first kill! He probably didn't give it 100%, but a kill is a kill!!

So, you know I just had to get this car to a 1/4 mile drag strip, especially with all the controversy and debate I've had on my initial dyno results.

This past Friday, I took my Fiero GXP to Edge Water Sports Park just outside of Cincinnati for it's Test and Tune Night. http://www.edgewaterrace.com

While I've been on closed tracks with my BMW at least 7 times in the last 2 years, I have NEVER been to a drag strip. I'm nervous as hell, but excited about seeing what this car can do. I try to lower my expectations, as I don't want to set my expectations up too high as I knew I would have to deal with my street tires, not being able to hard launch the car, and trying to figure out how to respond to a light tree for the first time. I've watched PINKS on TV and blew a few brain cells on video games, but that's about it! I wasn't sure what to expect. I convince myself that if I an post low 13's I'd be content, and with practice and luck, maybe I could break into the 12's one day. I was probably more nervous about crashing the drag racing community, more than anything else! I won't go into the details here, but the community is awesome! Interesting....but awesome!! All walks of life, all ages, all levels of education, income, and levels of soberness...but all in love with cars. It was great!!

So....how did we do?

I was able to get three runs in. The first run matched me up against a 2006 Mercedes Benz CL500 Coupe. I was freaking out, until I saw that it wasn't an AMG car so I figured I had a decent chance of keeping up with him. His confidence level and that of his friends when they saw he was matched up with my white wolf in sheep's clothing was at an all time high! It took me a while to figure out how to stage the car so that the two white lights engaged on the tree (this only gave the Benz that much more reason to stick his chest out) but I finally figured it out, and settled into the start. Results? Kicked his ASS!!!!

R/T: .539 (he had a .442 R/T as a comparison)
60' : n/a my side wasn't working, but he had a 2.432
330: 5.510
1/8: 8.470 @ 83.76 mph
1000: 10.980
1/4: 13.128 @ 104.90 (the CL500 posted a 14.907 @ 96.88)

Recall, because of the code thing, I had to feather the start to avoid the shut down. But once it hooked, this car practically lept down the track! I'd do anything to run a 1/2 mile run, cause the car had plenty left and kept pulling the whole way. The sweet roar of the engine was only out gunned by the pounding of my heart against my chest! As I pulled back into line, my former nervousness quickly transformed into one cocky S.O.B.! As people walked by, I fielded all kind of questions regarding what the heck I had in this 21 year old "sheep"!

Race Two pitted me up against a 2005 BMW M3!! I won't lie, I was feeling a bit cocky still but the M3 driver and his crew actually had nerve to try to hide their giggling!! Oh, hell no! He gave his many friends high fives, and we pulled up into the start. Since I now knew I had a 13 second car, I had to wear my helmet. This actually gave the M3 a moment of pause! Of course, after the first run I immediately called Ryan to seek some coaching and driving tips, and report my results. He was very pleased, and was actually suprised I did so well for my first time at drag racing. We agreed to try to get aggressive with the next start to see if the track would hold my spin to a minimum and allow me to have a better launch. The M3 driver was smoking his tires like crazy. He was clearly no amateur, or so it appeared! I stomped...tires spun...car shut down! DAMMIT! I quickly got back into it, and to my disbelief...I was starting to quickly gain on the M3! Results? Caught his ass and beat him by .0618 seconds!!

R/T: 1.037
60: still racing on the side that's not working (he posted a 2.207)
330: 6.080
1/8: 9.037 @ 84.04 mph
1000: 11.537
1/4: 13.676 @ 105.33 (the M3 posted a 13.806 @ 102.59)

So, while I almost ran off the track cause I'm laughing so damn hard that despite a jacked up start, I still caught the M3 and beat him! But now I'm starting to get a little annoyed that I can't launch the car without fear of it shutting down on me. But before I could even get into feeling bad, as I get back in line for my final run, I'm met by crowds of people now even more curious than ever of what the hell I have as a power plant! They tell me the engine sounded awesome, and how the race announcer made a special point to call attention to the "little white Fiero with an attitude!". I spend the next 40 minutes answering questions and was even propositioned to sell my car twice. Of course there is NO AMOUNT of money that could get this car from me...at least not that night!! I thought to myself..I could get use to this!

My third and final run pitted me up against a late model Ford Thunderbird. It was an older guy, with race slicks in the rear and clearly something monsterous under the hood. At this point, I was happy to get away with two wins, so I was more focused on trying to launch without having the car shut down on me versus thinking I had a chance winning this one. The crowd was pretty thick at this point in the night, and I could easily see all the fingers pointing at my car as we pulled up. I think I was starting to get a bit of a fan club. This could really get addictive!! As I pulled up, I drove around the water to keep my tires dry, to see if that would do anything. Of course, the Thunderbird was laying all kinds of smoke and rubber. I tried not to focus on that, as I knew my goose was cooked on this race. Results? The Fiero GXP leaves it's first drag race UNDEFEATED!! About a 1/3 of the way down the track, he disappeared. I'd guess engine trouble or something. He finished, but well after the GXP!

R/T: .539 (the Thunderbird had a .233 R/T)
60: 1.895 ( I finally got on the side where the 60 ft worked!)
330: 5.442
1/8: 8.336 @ 84.80 mph
1000: 10.829
1/4: 12.961 @ 105.53 mph

Nearly 6 days later, and my voice is still hoarse from yelling and laughing so hard that I was able to break into the 12's at my first time at the track, with crappy R/Ts and having to feather my launches! That ride home was the best EVER!! I don't think I drove any faster than 60 mph the whole way home, but all windows and sunroof was open, just so I could hear the engine purrrr (or roar actually!).

So based on the 1/4 times, the calculators I've plugged the data into put the car at 272 HP at the wheels, and about 354 HP at the flywheel. This is consistent with the last Dyno reading Ryan made on the car. With a bit more experience, and fixing the wheel spin issue, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to get into the mid 12's on this car. I am one happy customer. It's not the fastest Fiero on the road...but it's a daily driver 1987 Fiero GT with one of the very first stock LS4s and it's all mine!!! [Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haaaaa!]

Blkcofy
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I've got the new Dietmar side scoops one there way from Germany already. I'm thinking seriously about keeping the car white and perhaps mimic the Ferrari paint scheme...

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:angel:
AkursedX
Turbo-boostin!
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Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:14 pm
Location: Lackawanna, NY

Post by AkursedX »

Like I posted in the 1/4mph thread on the other site. I find it really strange that Ryan's last two swaps, yours and mine, have run damn near identical times from the 60' right to the end result!

Yours:
R/T: .539
60: 1.895
330: 5.442
1/8: 8.336 @ 84.80 mph
1000: 10.829
1/4: 12.961 @ 105.53 mph

Mine:
R/T: .510
60: 1.890
330: 5.378
1/8: 8.285 @ 84.91 mph
1000: 10.814
1/4: 12.959 @ 106.13 mph


Man, if we could have done that race side by side, it would have been one AWESOME race!

Congrats on the results!

1/4 - 12.95
1/4 mph - 106.13
'88 Fiero GT- 3800 Turbo Best E.T. 11.36 Best MPH 121.50 (Sold and gone)
2021 Hyundai Veloster-N (SCCA Solo D-Street)
2004 Mazda RX-8 (SCCA Solo STX)
WNY SCCA-Region Auto-X Program Chair
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Shaun41178(2)
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Post by Shaun41178(2) »

Excellent writeup.

Very nice results for a fairly stock ls3. This motor has potential and in the right hands like Ryans, it wouldnt' be too hard for a 11 sec ls3 fiero. Can you say Bottle fed?

Nice times. Your car is definately quick. :thumbleft:
The Dark Side of Will
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Post by The Dark Side of Will »

LS3's a different beast, man.

Congrats on the 12's! One your first night out, too! :thumbleft:
Atilla the Fun
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:36 pm

Post by Atilla the Fun »

excellent! Now for your real-world gas mileage, once you manage to quit putting your foot in it. Until you get a T76!
Sinister Fiero
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Post by Sinister Fiero »

blkcofy wrote:FINAL CHAPTER

The other improvement is that while Ryan was able to turn off all the computer signals like ABS brakes, traction control, etc. the engine code has a default setting that whenever the tires have excessive spin, it throws the car in neutral, until you get back into it. So I've learned (learning) to ease into the launches with a slight tire chirp instead of stomping on it. Ryan is working with HP Tuners to fix both issues.
Just an update, the above issue has been corrected. Per TiredGXP's advice, we switched off the Diff Score and Trans Abuse param's in the programming and that took care of it. Blkcofy can now burn rubber with the best of 'em (at his own risk, of course!).
OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED
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Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions | www.gmtuners.com
Atilla the Fun
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:36 pm

Post by Atilla the Fun »

Hope you get to the dragstrip again soon!
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Shaun41178(2)
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Re: LS4 V8 DoD 4T65-E TAPShift swap underway (pics inside)

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

just bumping this for some of our newer members, and any updates if any
FieroPhrek working on that ls4 swap for 20 years and counting now. 20 years!!!!! LOL


BEWARE OF BEN PHELPS AND WOT-TECH MOTORSPORTS. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. WORSE THAN MILZY IMO
Atilla the Fun
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:36 pm

Re: LS4 V8 DoD 4T65-E TAPShift swap underway (pics inside)

Post by Atilla the Fun »

good. I shoulda, since I'm giving up on the truck 5.3 since the LS4 is now more available, used, for a fair price. But I'm going 6-speed manual.
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