Anyone donate plasma?

[Aaron]

EB, as I said, I'm not going to argue this. But serving our country in the military is not the service to our country I was referring to. You're getting a paycheck, a rather nice one, to do that. And trust me on this, there are thousands of our soldiers that are either in jail, or deserve to be.

I think any person with a full job serves our country as much as you do, if that's the most you can come up with. My Dad works for fucking Safeway, he puts milk on the shelves. As far as good for our people goes, it's just as noble as your job. Paycheck comes home, Government takes some. He spends paycheck, Government takes some. Process repeats. It's the same story with you.

[EBSB52]

I just scanned most of that, but I totally disagree on forced military service. That's a large part of what makes ours that great is that it's a volunteer service. Way better that way IMO.

I can respectfully disagree on a couple fronts.

1) The greatest generation was of a draft nature and they were tougher than us now.

2) And forced may be your label, but compulsory / conscription is the official definition. Those pussy nations over in socialist Western Europe are compulsory and they can be great too. What makes our military strong is our technology, we've bankrupted ourselves and future gens by way of matching the rest of teh world in military spending, that's what makes us tough. I would think these proud folks would want to wave their flags and serve, but that's just silly liberalism, unlikethe tough conservatives; the real Americans.

[EBSB52]

EB, as I said, I'm not going to argue this.

And then you go on to argue it.

But serving our country in the military is not the service to our country I was referring to. You're getting a paycheck, a rather nice one, to do that. And trust me on this, there are thousands of our soldiers that are either in jail, or deserve to be.

I’m not currently in the military, I served 1 term way back, I’m just saying that every man should do so, absent extraordinary circumstances. BTW, they make shit period, esp for 24/7 service. Don’t be fooled, they make shit.

I think any person with a full job serves our country as much as you do, if that's the most you can come up with. My Dad works for fucking Safeway, he puts milk on the shelves. As far as good for our people goes, it's just as noble as your job.

I don’t think so, not as much as a military member, for which I am currently not. You having never served cannot understand the sacrifice, esp in time of war, which I was not but would have gone. Not to diminish your dad’s importance to our national community, we are all necessary and should be here to help each other in the grand scheme, which is why I am pro-universal healthcare.

Paycheck comes home, Government takes some. He spends paycheck, Government takes some. Process repeats. It's the same story with you.

Again, I’m not currently military and I think they s/b tax exempt - yet another issue tho. Stockimng milk or driving a truck, or running a mill are all necessary operations, but serving in the military is something I hold in high regard, those who haven’t served don’t and can’t get it, I think Will would agree.


YOU WROTE: "No Government can give anything to anybody without first taking it from another. Government is, by very nature, legalized taking."


I REPLIED: We have been a debtor nation since our inception, that is so very brilliant of you to notice that we have always for >200 years been about taking from future generations and ALWAYS WILL. So since this process of allegedly taking from another is the entirety, get used to it. I doubt you cried too much when your guy took 5 trillion and gave ot to the rich. Oh, it was for the war? About 17% was, but the rest was in tax cuts for the rich, as we don't pay taxes, only the rich do and when they have their puppet in charge by getting enough ignorant asswipes to elect him, they don't pay much in taxes either.

Funny how you claim to know nothing about politics, but a lot about the government.....aren't they essentially irretrievably intertwined?

About the entire issue of blood donation, think of it this way because that is the way it is: Healthcare is a luxury in the US, it is exclusive. Don’t think for a second because I don’t have it that I’m jealous of those who do, as most have such pathetic coverer age that it is catastrophe insurance and anything <5K, 10K is not covered or has HUGE deductibles. With that, why should I voluntarily participate in a healthcare system that indiscriminately omits me? 1 more time, answer that; healthcare exclusive, blood donation exclusive too, it’s real simple. Healthcare mandatory for all citizens, blood donation mandatory as well. This is not rocket science, kid. I think military service should be compulsory too, so some of these pussy druggies of today could become men.

Here’s a clue for you. A POS like McVeigh who blew up the gov building in OK City, he understood a few things about the gov that people who do not serve don’t know. Again, may his ass rot in hell, he did totally the wrong thing from start to finish as well as that fuck Nichols, but he understood things you probably never will and I will only understand in concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

McVeigh was a decorated Gulf War soldier who returned as an Army-trained killer. He learned to shut off his emotions and to carry out the mission w/o emotion with whatever “collateral damages” that may happen. He was sparked by the Wako siege where the US gov reportedly ignited the Branch Dividian’s compound, killing many people including kids. So 2 years later he blew up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, killing many people, including kids. He referred to his killing of these people as collateral damage. He was acting toward the US gov the way the US gov directed him to act to other people. This is inherently delusional as he abhorred the US gov doing the same acts he did to others, somehow justifying it.

He was largely confused, he was an extreme conservative, left Buffalo due to it being too liberal, yet advocated the government stop being so tyrannical and more peaceful, clearly liberal agendas……

After leaving the Army in 1992, McVeigh grew increasingly transient. At first he worked briefly near his hometown of Pendleton as a security guard, where he sounded off daily to his co-worker Carl Lebron, Jr. about his loathing for government. Deciding the Buffalo area was too liberal, he left his job and began driving around America, seeking out his old friends from the Army.

And…

McVeigh wrote letters to local newspapers, complaining about taxes

“Taxes are a joke. Regardless of what a political candidate "promises," they will increase. More taxes are always the answer to government mismanagement. They mess up. We suffer. Taxes are reaching cataclysmic levels, with no slowdown in sight ... Is a Civil War Imminent? Do we have to shed blood to reform the current system? I hope it doesn't come to that. But it might.”

He's deluded here for 2 major reasons:

1) Taxes are less here than most/all other developed nations
2) The Republicans don’t raise taxes, they lower them, which is why we are in bad shape; too much class disparity.

Ironically, he was a Registered Republican, NRA member for which he later dropped as he felt they were too weak, and a self-proclaimed Libertarian……kind of describes some members of this forum, huh?


Anyway, the point I’m making, I draw this parallel to you by you saying to just give it all to the country, be damned to yourself. Peaceful dissent is what this country is about and has been about and for you to tell me to, “Just, aw shucks, it won’t hurt a bit, you don’t need healthcare, just give to those who have that luxury” I respond by saying that when you actually grow up and have some life experiences, you might understand.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And all the rest of that post; where is your response? You acquiesce? OK. I want to hear what you have to say. Oh well, I’m used to it.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Nice quote. Attribution?

Who cares? I put it in quotes, clearly it isn't my own.

But if you must continue to try and embarrass me, it's from David Lane's 88 Precepts. Although the entire 'article' isn't exactly politically correct, there are a few that make sense and would benefit society if applied. I also misquoted the sentence slightly.

I'm not trying to embarrass you. I just wanted the attribution so that I could attribute it correctly in *my* quote library.

[Unsafe At Any Speed]

I just scanned most of that, but I totally disagree on forced military service. That's a large part of what makes ours that great is that it's a volunteer service. Way better that way IMO.

I can respectfully disagree on a couple fronts.

1) The greatest generation was of a draft nature and they were tougher than us now.

2) And forced may be your label, but compulsory / conscription is the official definition. Those pussy nations over in socialist Western Europe are compulsory and they can be great too. What makes our military strong is our technology, we've bankrupted ourselves and future gens by way of matching the rest of teh world in military spending, that's what makes us tough. I would think these proud folks would want to wave their flags and serve, but that's just silly liberalism, unlikethe tough conservatives; the real Americans.

Well for one, I don't want to work with people that don't want to be there.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I just scanned most of that, but I totally disagree on forced military service. That's a large part of what makes ours that great is that it's a volunteer service. Way better that way IMO.

I can respectfully disagree on a couple fronts.

1) The greatest generation was of a draft nature and they were tougher than us now.

2) And forced may be your label, but compulsory / conscription is the official definition. Those pussy nations over in socialist Western Europe are compulsory and they can be great too. What makes our military strong is our technology, we've bankrupted ourselves and future gens by way of matching the rest of teh world in military spending, that's what makes us tough. I would think these proud folks would want to wave their flags and serve, but that's just silly liberalism, unlikethe tough conservatives; the real Americans.

Well for one, I don't want to work with people that don't want to be there.

Amen. When your life depends on the guy, you need to know that he's in it to win.

[EBSB52]

I just scanned most of that, but I totally disagree on forced military service. That's a large part of what makes ours that great is that it's a volunteer service. Way better that way IMO.

I can respectfully disagree on a couple fronts.

1) The greatest generation was of a draft nature and they were tougher than us now.

2) And forced may be your label, but compulsory / conscription is the official definition. Those pussy nations over in socialist Western Europe are compulsory and they can be great too. What makes our military strong is our technology, we've bankrupted ourselves and future gens by way of matching the rest of teh world in military spending, that's what makes us tough. I would think these proud folks would want to wave their flags and serve, but that's just silly liberalism, unlikethe tough conservatives; the real Americans.

Well for one, I don't want to work with people that don't want to be there.

Most of the people I work with don't want to be there, I think that's true of most occupations. Quite diff from a military situation. But look at WWII and VN, I think our troops were in general quite effective and honorable. And in peace time it would be easier. It just bodes to a sense of country, here we force our kids to cite the pledge of allegiance and then learn to fuck our fellow citizen, in Europe they don't pretend to be allegiant by some silly utterance, they show it by serving, rich and poor alike.

[EBSB52]

I just scanned most of that, but I totally disagree on forced military service. That's a large part of what makes ours that great is that it's a volunteer service. Way better that way IMO.

Well for one, I don't want to work with people that don't want to be there.

Amen. When your life depends on the guy, you need to know that he's in it to win.

For him it's win or die, losing = death, I think peopel tend to figure it out. But again, we are generally at peace, so it is usally just a peacetime service, no losing or winning. Were the guys in WWII losers? HArdly, they had a sense of country. Different era, we've learned to be focused on outdoing the Jones', but that's the ugly side of our capitalism, thne we were just comming out of teh GD and had a sense of each other, now it's a sense of me.

[The Dark Side of Will]

The interpreter/secretary in Saving Private Ryan wasn't in it to win... That's obviously a film example, but I'm sure there were a lot of guys like that. We had a lot of casualties in WWII in close combat who had unexpended rounds in their weapons; guys who just couldn't bring themselves to kill another human being.

In aviation, even a routine mission can turn into a fight for survival because the aircraft might try to kill you. If the guy next to you in the cockpit doesn't want to be there, he may not know his stuff or be able to shoulder his share of the task load required to get that plane to the ground safely. This endangers everyone aboard.

[EBSB52]

The interpreter/secretary in Saving Private Ryan wasn't in it to win... That's obviously a film example, but I'm sure there were a lot of guys like that. We had a lot of casualties in WWII in close combat who had unexpended rounds in their weapons; guys who just couldn't bring themselves to kill another human being.

In aviation, even a routine mission can turn into a fight for survival because the aircraft might try to kill you. If the guy next to you in the cockpit doesn't want to be there, he may not know his stuff or be able to shoulder his share of the task load required to get that plane to the ground safely. This endangers everyone aboard.

Even guys who want to be there can err. Or at one time they want to be there, then they decide tehy don't. Men need to stand up and serve, so-called tough Americans don't know that, so-called pussy Europeans do.....hmmmmmmmmm

[The Dark Side of Will]

I think we both agree that military service is beneficial to the individual and necessary to the state.

The answer about compulsory vs. volunteer is really in the middle someplace. There are a lot more people who *could* benefit from military service than do, but there are also a lot of people who are not suited to military service in the first place.

[EBSB52]

I think we both agree that military service is beneficial to the individual and necessary to the state.

The answer about compulsory vs. volunteer is really in the middle someplace. There are a lot more people who *could* benefit from military service than do, but there are also a lot of people who are not suited to military service in the first place.

I can agree with that, but I think it makes for a better society, a society that understands composure and community. I think a lot of Emo fags like Cinci and shaun could use it, but they would just get beat down everyday in basic, but it would be good for them in the longrun. I just think that ultimately a society needs to learn to work together and that 1 year of military service brings a sense of ownership of one's country, a stake in that country. Simply sucking off the system and avoiding anything that appears to be sacrifice, smoking dope and saying fuck teh system breeds a sense of greed and selfishness. I would like to see a 1-year compulsory service and uni-healthcare, as well as compulsory blood donation. The US has taken the concept of individualism to a gross extreme and now it's just plain selfish greed.