Public executions?

DiggityBiggity · Post by **DiggityBiggity** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:54 pm

zonyl wrote:
DiggityBiggity wrote:This man never said shit about a bomb... then they ask him to lay on the ground, he has on a fanny pack... so he goes to move it aside, and they blow him away
From all the news stories aggregated that I could read:

1. The guy was running down an isle in an Airplane (not an elegant manuver I can imagine)
2. Woman shouted he was mentally ill
3. Man was not taking perscribed medication for known mental condition traveling on public transportation.
4. Trigger happy feds on board in high stress environment.

1+2+3+4 = qualifying for Darwin award.

No excuse for deadly use of force

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:38 pm

DiggityBiggity wrote:
No excuse for deadly use of force

kill or be killed - one life or risk many lives -- thats how its always been - probably always will be

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:20 pm

DiggityBiggity wrote:Read all the articles posted, including yours... that man should not have been shot... no way

Your concerned leader

Diggity"Excusing excessive use of force is dangerous"Biggity

Hey we agree for once. Deffinatly need more than guns on a plane, those green flashlights that make you violently ill, beanbag guns, and heavy duty tazers. Whats happening here is that they are preparing for terrorists, and not the more likely mentaly challenged passengers who say bomb.

This is sad.

DiggityBiggity · Post by **DiggityBiggity** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:39 pm

p8ntman442 wrote:
This is sad.

I agree

Your concerned leader

Diggity"7 witnesses... this man was silent"Biggity

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:39 pm

Wow, this is quite ridiculous that this happened. As hardcore republican as I am (Not that hardcore), this should not have happened.

However, trying to put myself in the agent's shoes, he was justified IMHO. If someone is running at me, hand in a bag, bet your bottom dollar I will fire on him in that situation.

So, I believe the agent was justified, but they do need non lethal weapons such as tazers (Not 100% practical in this situation IMHO), and maybe other things as well. But with none of these at the officer's disposal, lethal force IMO is justified.

DiggityBiggity · Post by **DiggityBiggity** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:43 pm

aaron wrote: If someone is running at me, hand in a bag, bet your bottom dollar I will fire on him in that situation.

Uhm.. He wasn't exactly doing that

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:58 pm

DiggityBiggity wrote:
aaron wrote: If someone is running at me, hand in a bag, bet your bottom dollar I will fire on him in that situation.

Uhm.. He wasn't exactly doing that

I obviously didn't read it well enough. From what I got, he was running up the center aisle out of the plane, and when told to get don he moved his hand to the gay tourist bag in front to move it. Boom, if I'm an officer, damn strait I'm pulling my weapon.

DiggityBiggity · Post by **DiggityBiggity** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:53 am

He was shot and killed in the breezeway between the plane and the airport... Not on the plane

zonyl · Post by **zonyl** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:05 am

DiggityBiggity wrote:
zonyl wrote:
DiggityBiggity wrote:This man never said shit about a bomb... then they ask him to lay on the ground, he has on a fanny pack... so he goes to move it aside, and they blow him away
From all the news stories aggregated that I could read:

1. The guy was running down an isle in an Airplane (not an elegant manuver I can imagine)
2. Woman shouted he was mentally ill
3. Man was not taking perscribed medication for known mental condition traveling on public transportation.
4. Trigger happy feds on board in high stress environment.

1+2+3+4 = qualifying for Darwin award.
No excuse for deadly use of force

This man had a choice, his choice was to take prescribed meds for a mental condition while being willingly exposed to a high stress dangerous environment. You havent produced any articles where I would be concerned about being shot on a plane, because subway/plane people just were flat out acting suspicious by choice. The only point to this story that has any merit is what happened exactly if/when the person stopped, how he moved his fanny pack. But all the leading up to events seem to be confirmed and worthy of being deadly suspicious on their own.

The excuse for deadly force was the lack of any other force available to officers. Again, lets provide these people with alternatives, more education, and raise our taxes to cover all of this.

jstillwell · Post by **jstillwell** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:00 pm

zonyl wrote: This man had a choice, his choice was to take prescribed meds for a mental condition while being willingly exposed to a high stress dangerous environment.

Ever forget something? Pack for a trip and leave your shoes home? How about your camera or swimsuit? Maybe he forgot to pack his meds or ran out of them. I can tell you, I would never CHOOSE to not take my medication, but there have been plenty of times where I have forgotten to. Maybe he was trying to get back to his luggage where his meds where, knowing that he could not cope with a transoceanic flight without them.

I feel bad for the marshalls, for the choice they had to make and that they'll have to live with. I fear that the trigger fingers will just get itchier with every alqueda bulletin. Maybe this was just a complicated case of suicide by cop, but I stand by my assesment. The terrorists have won.

jstillwell · Post by **jstillwell** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:52 pm

Now coming to your trains and busses?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051214/ap_ ... r_marshals

How exactly are crazy people supposed to travel if they can't ride the 'Hound?

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:25 pm

DiggityBiggity wrote:This man never said shit about a bomb... then they ask him to lay on the ground, he has on a fanny pack... so he goes to move it aside, and they blow him away

He couldn't lay down because his fanny pack was in the way. Nice.

jstillwell · Post by **jstillwell** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:44 pm

Talk about being a fashion victim...

EBSB52 · Post by **EBSB52** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:12 pm

jstillwell wrote:
zonyl wrote: This man had a choice, his choice was to take prescribed meds for a mental condition while being willingly exposed to a high stress dangerous environment.
Ever forget something? Pack for a trip and leave your shoes home? How about your camera or swimsuit? Maybe he forgot to pack his meds or ran out of them. I can tell you, I would never CHOOSE to not take my medication, but there have been plenty of times where I have forgotten to. Maybe he was trying to get back to his luggage where his meds where, knowing that he could not cope with a transoceanic flight without them.

I feel bad for the marshalls, for the choice they had to make and that they'll have to live with. I fear that the trigger fingers will just get itchier with every alqueda bulletin. Maybe this was just a complicated case of suicide by cop, but I stand by my assesment. The terrorists have won.

Ever forget something? Pack for a trip and leave your shoes home? How about your camera or swimsuit? Maybe he forgot to pack his meds or ran out of them. I can tell you, I would never CHOOSE to not take my medication, but there have been plenty of times where I have forgotten to. Maybe he was trying to get back to his luggage where his meds where, knowing that he could not cope with a transoceanic flight without them.

I feel bad for the marshalls, for the choice they had to make and that they'll have to live with. I fear that the trigger fingers will just get itchier with every alqueda bulletin. Maybe this was just a complicated case of suicide by cop, but I stand by my assesment. The terrorists have won.

Talk about being a fashion victimâ€¦

Agree on all points.

The most compelling is the fact that the terrorists have won. If this gov knew how to handle the matter in a large scale way, the terrorists wouldnâ€™t win, but since the gov at the very least knew in a general sense of 9/11, I think they win along with the terrorists.

jstillwell · Post by **jstillwell** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:16 am

EBSB52 wrote: If this gov knew how to handle the matter in a large scale way, the terrorists wouldnâ€™t win, but since the gov at the very least knew in a general sense of 9/11, I think they win along with the terrorists.

It might be my Bird Flu clouding my comprehension, but I don't really get your last phrase. Not to be glib, but shooting citizens is a "win-win"?

Remember to keep it simple though, I'm more medicated then usual. Thanks.

zonyl · Post by **zonyl** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:47 pm

jstillwell wrote:
zonyl wrote: This man had a choice, his choice was to take prescribed meds for a mental condition while being willingly exposed to a high stress dangerous environment.
Ever forget something? Pack for a trip and leave your shoes home? How about your camera or swimsuit? Maybe he forgot to pack his meds or ran out of them. I can tell you, I would never CHOOSE to not take my medication, but there have been plenty of times where I have forgotten to. Maybe he was trying to get back to his luggage where his meds where, knowing that he could not cope with a transoceanic flight without them.

I feel bad for the marshalls, for the choice they had to make and that they'll have to live with. I fear that the trigger fingers will just get itchier with every alqueda bulletin. Maybe this was just a complicated case of suicide by cop, but I stand by my assesment.

Forgeting to take a drug as prescribed, can be classified as reckless, especially when it endangers someone else. IMO, no more or less reckless than someone who tries to drive a Fiero hard and fast without experience along the coastline.

I forget things all the time, but I dont expect sympathy from others when I do.

The terrorists have won.

What is it the terrorists won and was it what they were really trying to achieve? I believe the standard answer is "We live in fear now". Is that their real objective to make other people fear them, or simply a step in achieving a goal which they never seem to win as they keep "terrorising" people. If they won, then they would stop correct?

Well, I always live in fear, fear of dying (naturally or by someone else's hand), fear of losing a family member, and fear of my stocks going into the toilet upon retirment. I think everyone fears these things and always had long before al queda showed up on our doorstep. Our persistence at rising above these fears to still enjoy life is proved by the terrorists that keep trying to do their thing.

jstillwell · Post by **jstillwell** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:01 pm

Wow. Harsh.

I have every desire to maintian my medication. So how much medication do you think he carries on his person? Enough for the whole trip? Probably not, customs might trip, and explaining things to authorites isn't really what a mentally ill person wants to do on vacation. So where's the rest of his meds?

Checked on his luggage.

Now, just open your mind to the possibility that his checked luggage coming from the efficient airports of South America may not have made it to the US. So. Now he needs to get new meds in another country. He sure isn't having fun on his vacation so far. Maybe the doctor at the Doc in the Box that he goes to for help gives him different medication then what he's used to. Reacts badly.

It's not like he was drunk. His choices were mostly made for him in the way his creator wired him up. I think there's room for sympathy.

zonyl · Post by **zonyl** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:08 pm

jstillwell wrote:Wow. Harsh.

I have every desire to maintian my medication. So how much medication do you think he carries on his person? Enough for the whole trip? Probably not, customs might trip, and explaining things to authorites isn't really what a mentally ill person wants to do on vacation. So where's the rest of his meds?

Checked on his luggage.

Now, just open your mind to the possibility that his checked luggage coming from the efficient airports of South America may not have made it to the US. So. Now he needs to get new meds in another country. He sure isn't having fun on his vacation so far. Maybe the doctor at the Doc in the Box that he goes to for help gives him different medication then what he's used to. Reacts badly.

It's not like he was drunk. His choices were mostly made for him in the way his creator wired him up. I think there's room for sympathy.

My mind is limited to the possibilities based on the limited evidence from the news which I aggregated earlier. From that little evidence it would appear to me he was reckless. There might be other factors as you suggest and if those came to light I could potentially change my mind. Unfortunately, I am incapable of obtaining what will be the real story of the matter, so my judgement is based on what I do know (aint a whole lot).

Ultimately, what anyone thinks of these types of issues is moot. We are not directly involved in the case so we will never have much effect on it. I do learn some things from these issues and I appreciate the hypothtical scenarios you gave for what might be his reasons for doing what he did.

DiggityBiggity · Post by **DiggityBiggity** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:06 pm

zonyl wrote:
I forget things all the time, but I dont expect sympathy from others when I do.

Uhhm.. The man was shot 5 times and killed.. sympathy? I think that's an understatement... I expect professionalism with men who are armed with guns.. not child like reactions

Your concerned leader

Diggity"The Air Marshalls are nothing but failed prison guards"Biggity

zonyl · Post by **zonyl** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:40 pm

DiggityBiggity wrote:
zonyl wrote:
I forget things all the time, but I dont expect sympathy from others when I do.

Uhhm.. The man was shot 5 times and killed.. sympathy? I think that's an understatement... I expect professionalism with men who are armed with guns.. not child like reactions

Your concerned leader

Diggity"The Air Marshalls are nothing but failed prison guards"Biggity

You want to pay more taxes for better marshalls?