Real Fiero Tech

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:05 pm**

Dude... you need a $2000-$4000 dollar adapter plate kit to get that engine to bolt to your fiero trans... fiero trans and diff are one and the same... TRANSAXLE

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:13 pm**

nfswift wrote: Once I finish with bolt ons IE aftermarket camshaft, custom exhaust, an exhaust dump, cold air, new intake manifold, MAYBE new carb and valve heads I'd be looking at a conservative 275HP and likely over 300ft-lbs torque at peak. Not much to yawn about there, especially considering what the powerband looks like and the ability to crack open those secondaries...

Northstar makes that stock. Actually add in the cold air, exhaust, and tuning you'd have 330hp.

The $2000 you save by not buying an adapter plate will buy you a crate engine. :thumbleft:

but I am biased...

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:43 pm**

nfswift wrote:Cool MN. These questions may sound stupid but bear with me.

How much of a pain was it to get installed, custom engine mounts? Engine cradle mods? You used the stock V-8 tranny right? How difficult was it to mount the tranny to the differential and what diff did you use? How well do they play together? Any idea how much horsepower you're putting down?

Does it go fast? :thumbleft:

There are two ways to do the trans mounts--both of them solid.

1) replace the rubber mounts with sections of pipe. These will work fine in the stock location.

2) Start cuttin' and weldin'. I had A'rchie do mine for me because I live a short distance away.

No cradle mods required, but I cut off all the unneeded brackets anyway.

The transmission bolts up using an adapter. You install a custom flywheel, install the adapter plate to the motor, the bolt up the tranny like you do to a stock fiero.

I'm using a stock fiero 4 speed. I have no idea how'll it'll hold up. Of the different Fiero transmissions, the 4 speed muncie is supposed to hold up the best.

No dyno or 1/4 mile times yet. Stick around.

The motor is a ZZ4:

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/120/pro ... Engine.htm

I'm not sure if the swap is cost efficient or not. $1100 gets you in the door to alot of cheap SBC performance parts, but that same $1100 into an 3800SC buys alot of fun (just ask stimpy).

If you've done motor swaps in other cars, have at it. If not, consider going with a 3800sc instead.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:54 pm**

nfswift wrote:. But I'm looking to drag it, not autocross and the like, on the other hand, I still want it to handle like the sports car it's meant to be.

Drag race it? What tranny do you plan to use?

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:09 pm**

Shaun41178(2) wrote: Drag race it? What tranny do you plan to use?

every one he can get a hold of.

Ask yourself one question, what GM vehicle that is FWD, and comes with a V8 is available with a stick?

None you say, hmm I wonder why.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:31 pm**

nfswift wrote:No, I havn't driven a SBC Fiero... sadly.

I understand that my swap would be both difficult and simple at the same time, but what I am looking for is the simplicity of the engine... a straight up 350 Chevy 4 barrel carbed V-8 (which I happen to have sitting in my yard). The other benefit of this swap is the possibility of doing a 383 next rebuild and stepping up the whoop-ass even more later on.

Once I finish with bolt ons IE aftermarket camshaft, custom exhaust, an exhaust dump, cold air, new intake manifold, MAYBE new carb and valve heads I'd be looking at a conservative 275HP and likely over 300ft-lbs torque at peak. Not much to yawn about there, especially considering what the powerband looks like and the ability to crack open those secondaries...

Getting the engine installed nicely and handling well on the road is the tough part. But I'm looking to drag it, not autocross and the like, on the other hand, I still want it to handle like the sports car it's meant to be.

Don't get me wrong, the twin-dual cam (minus lack of aftermarket), both series 3800s, the 4.9 caddy, and the Northstar are all fecking awesome once you have them built... I'd prefer to have a supercharger or EFI too but this is just the convenient build for me, and when it's tuned up good I'll have great power and still respectable gas mileage, and I'm willing to settle at that.

Plus I get the V-8 sound... "RRRRAAAAAAA!"

You're asking alot here. I'm going for similar results (handles well, runs in the 11s) and I've set aside a budget (if can really call it that, most people here would puke at what I've spent so far)to help me do that. Do you plan to run a stick or an auto? With the relative light weight of these cars, you don't need a torque monster to get it moving. With the heads and cam on my LS1, I should be around 425 hp and hopefully no higher than 375 tq. I don't care about gas mileage, I have a motorcycle for that. Also plan on a longer timeline to get everything done right. If you rush, you won't be happy with it in the end.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:40 pm**

S8n wrote:
nfswift wrote:No, I havn't driven a SBC Fiero... sadly.

I understand that my swap would be both difficult and simple at the same time, but what I am looking for is the simplicity of the engine... a straight up 350 Chevy 4 barrel carbed V-8 (which I happen to have sitting in my yard). The other benefit of this swap is the possibility of doing a 383 next rebuild and stepping up the whoop-ass even more later on.

Once I finish with bolt ons IE aftermarket camshaft, custom exhaust, an exhaust dump, cold air, new intake manifold, MAYBE new carb and valve heads I'd be looking at a conservative 275HP and likely over 300ft-lbs torque at peak. Not much to yawn about there, especially considering what the powerband looks like and the ability to crack open those secondaries...

Getting the engine installed nicely and handling well on the road is the tough part. But I'm looking to drag it, not autocross and the like, on the other hand, I still want it to handle like the sports car it's meant to be.

Don't get me wrong, the twin-dual cam (minus lack of aftermarket), both series 3800s, the 4.9 caddy, and the Northstar are all fecking awesome once you have them built... I'd prefer to have a supercharger or EFI too but this is just the convenient build for me, and when it's tuned up good I'll have great power and still respectable gas mileage, and I'm willing to settle at that.

Plus I get the V-8 sound... "RRRRAAAAAAA!"
You're asking alot here. I'm going for similar results (handles well, runs in the 11s) and I've set aside a budget (if can really call it that, most people here would puke at what I've spent so far)to help me do that. Do you plan to run a stick or an auto? With the relative light weight of these cars, you don't need a torque monster to get it moving. With the heads and cam on my LS1, I should be around 425 hp and hopefully no higher than 375 tq. I don't care about gas mileage, I have a motorcycle for that. Also plan on a longer timeline to get everything done right. If you rush, you won't be happy with it in the end.

How's that thing going, anyhow? Last thing I recall was a re-fabbing of alot of the stuff that came with the kit.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:51 pm**

MNFatz wrote:
How's that thing going, anyhow? Last thing I recall was a re-fabbing of alot of the stuff that came with the kit.

In one word: slow. I've been sick lately and the heat doesn't help. As for the kit, I tossed just about everything except the adapter plate. The cradle assemble is waiting to be fit into the car, need to measure a few things and cut hopefully not too much. Once that is done, the whole thing is coming apart for final asembly and exhaust fab.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:19 pm**

Will wrote: My advice is to find an aluminum block and a 3" crank. Build a CHEVY 302... it has the displacement and RPM characteristics more suited to the Fiero.

My advice would be to build a 383 stroker, put decent heads and a nice cam, turn higher RPM than the 302, and make A LOT more power.

There is no point to use small cubes in a SBC, unless you are limited by class or budget. With the cam/head/intake technology available, a shorter stroke will not help RPM at all.

This coming from one whose built a 550hp, 7500rpm 383 with off the shelf parts.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:26 pm**

S8n wrote:If you rush, you won't be happy with it in the end.

/truth.

Several things have bitten me in the ass because I rushed.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:56 pm**

Aaron wrote:
Will wrote: My advice is to find an aluminum block and a 3" crank. Build a CHEVY 302... it has the displacement and RPM characteristics more suited to the Fiero.
My advice would be to build a 383 stroker, put decent heads and a nice cam, turn higher RPM than the 302, and make A LOT more power.

There is no point to use small cubes in a SBC, unless you are limited by class or budget. With the cam/head/intake technology available, a shorter stroke will not help RPM at all.

This coming from one whose built a 550hp, 7500rpm 383 with off the shelf parts.

If I could delete this BS, I would...hint..hint..

Other than the spelling, there's nothing true about this post.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:58 pm**

So find me a 302 that revs past my 383. If you do, fine. I'll find an even bigger motor that revs farther.

You can find a cam, heads, and intake to rev a large bore/stroke SBC to any RPM you want.

Also weird, I have a 2.8l in my 88GT. It has short stroke, so it must be a high revver. YAH. But my 3.4 DOHC in my other 88GT has long stroke, so it can't rev for shit.

Odd, I could have sworn I saw the tach nail 7100 this afternoon. My 2.8l can't do that.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:11 pm**

We were revving a built 302 to 12,000 rpm (repeatedly) back when I was in school. It was around 650 hp if I remember right. The sound was mezmerizing.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:46 pm**

S8n wrote:We were revving a built 302 to 12,000 rpm (repeatedly) back when I was in school. It was around 650 hp if I remember right. The sound was mezmerizing.

I don't doubt it in the least. But there is no replacement for displacement, especially when you can get the same RPMs out of a larger displacement motor, for less money, with A LOT more power.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:50 pm**

aaron... ahh forget it.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:52 pm**

donk_316 wrote:aaron... ahh forget it.

You build a 2.8l to the MAX, didn't you?

Oh wait, you chose to use a 3.4...I wonder why...

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:58 pm**

a 3.4 doesn't have tranny breaking torque though.

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:02 am**

Aaron wrote:So find me a 302 that revs past my 383. If you do, fine. I'll find an even bigger motor that revs farther.

.

Gm was doing this back in the 60's. useing a 289 crank in a 327 block or somehting like that.

Factory redline I think was 7500.

Sure you can build a motor that will rev to 11k rpm aaron but at what cost? No fiero owners budget thats for sure. So cut it out already.

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:06 am**

product1620 wrote:a 3.4 doesn't have tranny breaking torque though.

Steven's does, and his is essentially stock...

I get your point though. But from what I've seen with every tes I've done, high RPM motors don't lose torque, they just don't gain it. For example, our 383. Although it revved to 7500, and came on hard at 4000, its low end was still really strong, and average with most all 383s. Just things happened at 4,000rpm that weren't average or normal.

Also my 3.4 DOHC, although having shorter runners, a huge throttle body, high end tuned headers, and much more, the low end torque was still slightly better than stock, it just came alive at 3500.

And I'm sure Donk's 3.4 PR was the same way, although modded for the high end (If you can call it that), it still outperformed stock down low.

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:08 am**

Steven is using a doorstop for a tranny. I can kick it with my foot and break the Isuzu.

And if his doesnt' have tire shredding tq and is breaking trannies, what the fuck do you think a high tq 383 is going to do to one? Damn dude. We are talking practicality and reliablity in a fiero application. Not a RWD camaro with a 12 bolt rear in it.

FUCK!!!!

Real Fiero Tech

ATTN: SBC users