LS4 V8 DoD 4T65-E TAPShift swap underway (pics inside)

Sinister Fiero · Post by **Sinister Fiero** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:21 am

Lookin' good, blkcofy!

The paint has dried on the mounts so as promised here are the pictures...

Not pictured is the one bracket that had to be welded to the cradle for the right rear transmission mount. It did work out that the other half of this RR trans mount bracket was able to be bolted directly to the cradle so that will make it easier to remove and install the mount in this location. As with previous swaps utilizing this mounting design, I am using OE-Replacement 84-87 Fiero front cradle mount bushings for my rubber mounts. They aren't quite as firm as poly mounts but I believe they are just about as strong. The benefit of using the rubber vs. the poly is better noise and virbation isolation which is what blkcofy opted for.

Sinister Fiero · Post by **Sinister Fiero** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:26 am

S8n wrote:You can grind down and retap that boss by quite a bit. Or, do you have room for a different LSX water pump? And depending on if you want to keep DoD, you can swap out valley pans.

Ditching the DoD is not an option. One of the selling points of this swap was to prove we could get a 300+ HP V8 into a Fiero and still get 30+ MPG HWY fuel economy out of it -- which shouldn't be a problem if the DoD is kept functioning.

Concerning the water pump, I don't think the standard LSx water pump will clear the Fiero strut tower. So the only other way to get around this issue would be to go with an electric water pump option but then cost and complexity of the cooling system go up sharply.

Sinister Fiero · Post by **Sinister Fiero** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:10 pm

Sinister Fiero · Post by **Sinister Fiero** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:56 pm

I figured out a solution for relocating the alternator but it was a tight fit; and some modifications were required to the block and chassis to accomidate this mounting location...

It may be hard to see in the pictures, but there is about 1/4" clearance between the alternator and CV drive axle and exhaust manifold. The CV drive axle tripod end shouldn't ever be able to come in contact with the alternator and the exhaust manifold is double wrapped with thermal barrier. I also applied some heat reflective tape to the area of the alternator that is closest to the manifold. Should keep it sufficiently protected.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:24 pm

that looks like a heavy duty mount, could you possibly drill holes in it to drop weight while keeping it structurally sound enough to support the alt.

Sinister Fiero · Post by **Sinister Fiero** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:58 pm

p8ntman442 wrote:that looks like a heavy duty mount, could you possibly drill holes in it to drop weight while keeping it structurally sound enough to support the alt.

Probably, but how much weight would you save by doing this? Maybe a pound or two? I don't think that would be worth the time.

Next time I might use 1/4" thick aluminum instead of 1/8" steel (that had to be increased to 1/4" thick to get the tensioner spaced correctly anyway).

The Dark Side of Will · Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:15 pm

Everything looks cooler with speed holes.

Sinister Fiero · Post by **Sinister Fiero** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:27 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Everything looks cooler with speed holes.

"If it don't go, CHROME IT!"

Sinister Fiero · Post by **Sinister Fiero** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:14 am

Finished the fuel pump install (Walbro 255lph) and hooked up the fuel pressure regulator...

Also got the water pump housing/cover cut down and ready for welding. But before I do that it was time for another test fit to make sure everything I have done so far is going to work...

And it looks good. I think I have the belt routing sorted out so as soon as I get the welding done to the housing I will add the last idler pulleys. The tensioner I decided to go with on this engine was the most compact one I could find -- which was for an LQ1 engine (3.4 DOHC).

Think I'm going to take a break from the mechanicals for a couple of days and start on the wiring. More pics to come...

-ryan

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:34 am

Sinister Fiero wrote:The tensioner I decided to go with on this engine was the most compact one I could find -- which was for an LQ1 engine (3.4 DOHC).

Make sure the one you get is in good shape.

I've recently found a lot of them that aren't. What happens is after thousands of miles, the pulley support gets bent, so the pulley actually sits angled. This doesn't hurt the belt too much, all 4 that I pulled off were bent to some degree yet still functioned fine. But once I ran the belt the opposite direction on it (Belt cogs down instead of up), it failed and would chuck the belt after just a few seconds of running. So it shouldn't be an issue for you as long as the flat side of the belt contacts the smooth pulley, but it's worth double checking.

Sinister Fiero · Post by **Sinister Fiero** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:05 pm

Aaron wrote:
Make sure the one you get is in good shape.

I've recently found a lot of them that aren't. What happens is after thousands of miles, the pulley support gets bent, so the pulley actually sits angled. This doesn't hurt the belt too much, all 4 that I pulled off were bent to some degree yet still functioned fine. But once I ran the belt the opposite direction on it (Belt cogs down instead of up), it failed and would chuck the belt after just a few seconds of running. So it shouldn't be an issue for you as long as the flat side of the belt contacts the smooth pulley, but it's worth double checking.

I have seen this too on ones that have some mileage -- which is why I bought a brand new one.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:06 pm

Sinister Fiero wrote: I have seen this too on ones that have some mileage -- which is why I bought a brand new one.

No expense spared on a top-notch swap, great job as usual.

Sinister Fiero · Post by **Sinister Fiero** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:20 pm

Battery is getting relocated to the front using one of norm's kits. I modified the tray by adding provisions for "tying down" the battery in case no spare tire is going to be present (stock spare won't work with the 12" brake upgrade that is going on this car).

Got started on the exhaust system and built it as far as to the cats. Will finish it up once the engine goes back in for the last time.

Below is a picture of the LS4 engine and transmission wiring harness with most of the loom removed. I took a few measurements before I removed the engine/trans from the car this last time so I can get as much rewiring done as possible with the engine out. Saves me from having to lean over into the engine compartment as much.

For ECM and TCM mounting I recycled some of the fiberglass front spare tire well I had to cut out for the battery box. The cases of the ECM and TCM should never be mounted to a metal surface that is grounded to the chassis. The reason why is because if the ground strap ever became severed from the engine to the chassis, or from the engine to the battery (but still connected from battery to chassis); high current could go thru the computers and damage them. GM keeps the cases to their computers isolated from chassis ground for this reason.

Also received the powdercoated suspension pieces from blkcofy and they look great. Got the new ball joints pressed into the front lower control arms tonight. I also got some fittings made for the modified front engine/water pump cover. Will get those welded on next week so I can get that put back on the engine and finalize my serp belt routing. Not pictured is the wiring I have already completed for positive and ground supply from the battery to chassis, engine, and alternator. The battery relocation kit comes with 4ga cable to run from the pos battery term to the starter; but for this swap I elected to upgrade this to 2ga because of the V8. I did use the 4ga cable to connect the starter to the Fiero's original power distribution block. I also pulled the clutch line, shifter, and shift/throttle cables from the car. Installed the auto trans cooler lines and I am working on mounting the fly-by-wire gas pedal assembly.

Something else noteworthy that I haven't spoken of yet is a tale about the ECM that came with this engine. This tale actually encompasses a couple of weeks that it took me to get where I am now. The ECM that came with this engine did come out of the same car the engine came out of. But what wasn't known at the time was that the ECM had been custom programmed by a company that I prefer not to name here. I didn't discover this until I got my bench harness built a couple of weeks ago and tried to read its programming using my HP Tuners tuning software. In short, the HP Tuners software wouldn't read the ECM at all and gave me an error indicating the security codes in the ECM had been changed (locked). HP Tuners customer support informed me that this ECM was probably not going to be usable unless I could hunt down the person/company that reprogrammed it and get them to unlock it. Well while I was waiting on getting in contact with the reprogrammer, I took the ECM to the dealer to see if they could force a reflash using SPS pass-thru programming. Well that ended up not working because of the software lock in the ECM.

After about a week I was put in touch with the original programmer and he informed me that the software he used to reprogram this particular ECM was in BETA TEST back when it was done. He also said he no longer had the beta software and basically the ECM I had was worthless (IE he couldn't even reprogram it if he wanted to). So, in short, I had to order a replacement ECM which I did get ahold of one for a very fair price. So hopefully in the next few days I will get the opportunity to get into the dealer and get the correct stock programming and VIN put onto this replacement ECM so I can start working on the custom program that will be used in this swap.

At this point there are a lot of different things I am working on at the same time. So updates and pics may be slow in coming.

-ryan

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:37 pm

This car is going to be LOUD.

Sinister Fiero · Post by **Sinister Fiero** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:54 pm

Aaron wrote:This car is going to be LOUD.

yea but not any louder than all the F-bodies running around here without mufflers (common practice of LSx Camaro/Firebird owners in my area).

The Dark Side of Will · Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:04 am

Sinister Fiero wrote:

I'm assuming that this tensioner pulls counterclockwise?

Know of any tensioners that pull clockwise?

Sinister Fiero · Post by **Sinister Fiero** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:02 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:
Sinister Fiero wrote:

I'm assuming that this tensioner pulls counterclockwise?

Know of any tensioners that pull clockwise?

Yes this tensioner pulls (puts load on) counterclockwise. Oddly enough, there are more tensioners that load clockwise in GM applications. Just to give you a short list...

96-up Vortec Truck 4.3, 5.0, 5.7.
88-92 Camaro/Firebird 5.0, 5.7.
95-up 3800 Series 2 & 3 (part of alt bracket)

Sinister Fiero · Post by **Sinister Fiero** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:31 pm

Probably the most time consuming single job of any swap involving an EFI engine and electronic auto transmission is the wiring. Sure I could have taken a short cut here and not modified the original LS4 wiring much but that's not how I do things. Pretty much every wire in the harness had to have its length changed so it could be routed the way I wanted. OEM had the wires going over the top of the intake for almost every device/sensor and I just don't like it done that way. I like to keep as much off the intake as possible and you can see the difference in the pictures below...

In progress...

Here's what it looked like stock...

Here's what it looks like now...

Still have quite a bit to do including integrate the engine harness into the vehicle but it's getting there.

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:27 pm

Looking good. Get that stupid cover off there and show off your work.

Also, you have an unrelated PM.

Sinister Fiero · Post by **Sinister Fiero** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:24 am

Fastback86 wrote:Looking good. Get that stupid cover off there and show off your work.

Stupid cover? I don't think so. I like GM's engine covers; they hide the ugly plastic intakes and fuel systems GM and many other car makers are using these days. But to each his own I guess.