ATTN: SBC users

nfswift · Post by **nfswift** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:53 pm

Look no further...

Also quoted as being lethargic under 4k though =\ suggested shift at 7,500... /drooool

Imagine the sound =D

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:01 pm

What all of these various pieces added up to was a healthy small block rated very conservatively at 290 horsepower at 5800 rpm and 290 ft. lbs. of torque at 4200 rpm. Rumor has it, however, that the same engine produced 350 horsepower at 7000 rpm on the dynamometer! Why would Chevy underrate the engine? Certainly insurance reasons come to mind, along with the desire to understate what the engine was capable of lest the various racing sanctioning bodies penalize the teams that chose to run the Z/28 in competition.
Road tests of the day praised the engine that Chevy put together. While most testers found the lack of "bottom end" power a nuisance, the 302 more than made up for that shortcoming with a very strong top end rush. One tester likened the pull of the Z/28 in the upper rpm range as being similar to a 426 Hemi! That's high praise indeed for an engine with two-thirds the displacement. Quarter mile times were in the low to mid 14-second bracket, depending upon the conditions the test was performed under. Modified 302s used in Trans-Am racing generated in the neighborhood of 450 horsepower, which is an amazing amount of power from 302 cubic inches with enough reliability to win SCCA championships in 1968 and 1969.

From this site
http://www.holisticpage.com/camaro/camaros/302.htm

Not bad for an engine made in 1967. With todays much improved heads, exhaust, carb, intake and valvetrains I imagine there is a lot of power to be made.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:02 pm

my brother has a 283 out of a 63 bel aire he stroked it though, so he may still have the crank, is it 67 specific?

nfswift · Post by **nfswift** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:05 pm

I'm sure there are some specifics to the year... the old crank might work though, who knows.

That much power from a stock 5.0L is crazy, I'm iffy about the quarter mile times though...

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:05 pm

Also quoted as being lethargic under 4k though =\ suggested shift at 7,500... /drooool

Imagine the sound =D

If they hoped in a 2.8 fiero, they would call it less than lethargic. I'm sure a 302 in a fiero will still put you back in your seat just fine, and a nice strong powerband all the way to 7000+

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:07 pm

nfswift wrote:
That much power from a stock 5.0L is crazy, I'm iffy about the quarter mile times though...

The muscle cars had shitty rubber and could not hook off the line. I imagine that motor in a fiero would put it in the low 12s/ high 11s.

A 300hp 4.6L northstar is good for mid to high 12s with a good driver, and it has a powerband that would be very similar to a chevy 302.

donk_316 · Post by **donk_316** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:09 pm

I cant be positive about any of these facts as like i said, its been along time since i built anything with 8 cylinders.

The 283 crank with the correct main journal size as the later blocks is the right one... which im sure is the later one.

Check the casting number sites for actual years. They will tell you.

hell i cant even remember the name of the site.... anyways GOOGLE!!!

nfswift · Post by **nfswift** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:15 pm

I donno guys, at 7,000RPM 350HP it's still making just North of 260ft-lbs at it's HORSEPOWER peak, when it's pulling strong at it's TQ peak are you sure a getrag 5 is going to hold up?

If not I could be looking at a very expensive build. Hell it's starting to look expensive anyway =O

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:18 pm

A 3800sc makes that much torque. A N* makes 300lb/ft, no failures yet.

I think the getrag is good for 300lb/ft, just can't drop the clutch or anything crazy like that. I think the V8Archie kit comes with a fairly heavy flywheel, so you have to be careful. Lots of stored energy in a heavy flywheel if you try a clutch dump at any kind of rpm.

nfswift · Post by **nfswift** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:19 pm

I guess learning to launch it with slicks would be really effing hard then?

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:09 pm

You hardly need slicks with a fiero. Are you looking to break records in the 1/4 mile?

A properly setup fiero has no problem hooking off the line, and on a sticky prepped track, regular street tires should be more than enough.

I would say a 100 shot of nitrous on a well built 302 would be fine as well, would make for a fun ride. I was thinking of buying a multiport nitrous system for my N*.

nfswift · Post by **nfswift** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:44 pm

Bottles are for babies

Just kidding though, that set up would be no slouch on the strip or the street!

I just don't fancy nitrous because I have no need for temporary HP gains.
I'd rather just run an engine that was built to run strong 100% of the time.

IE a 302 with fabricated exhaust (mechanical cutout), nice intake manifold, good 4 barrel carb, aluminum heads, strong valvetrain, and a hot camshaft. I wonder if that would make 400hp... 7000RPM too, jeez, that would just scream.

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:48 pm

nfswift wrote:I donno guys, at 7,000RPM 350HP it's still making just North of 260ft-lbs at it's HORSEPOWER peak, when it's pulling strong at it's TQ peak are you sure a getrag 5 is going to hold up?

I bet peak torque would be over 300lb/ft. Hell, a 4.9 has 275lb/ft and I know for a fact the 302 will have more torque than that anemic V-8.

I don't think it will be a problem. Now I feel like having a 302, its one of the options I was thinking of before I went to the N*.

Now, if you like the idea of that power curve, high redline and such, why not do a N*? They really are not that hard to do, especially if you use an earlier motor.

www.chrfab.com has all the go fast parts you need for a very streetable 400hp northstar.

AntiCooter · Post by **AntiCooter** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:18 pm

I have not read through this whole thread, so if this is a repeat- sorry:
A 302 can be built with "modern" parts with the crank from a Caprice L99 in a 350 block.

The Dark Side of Will · Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:10 am

That's what I was going to post.

In '94-'96 Caprices, the base engine was a 4.3 V8 with the same bore as a 305 but a 3" stroke. This crank will fit any modern 1-piece-rear-main Chevy block. The conrods from this engine are powdered metal with 5.940" length. You can pair L99 crank and rods with 350 pistons and block to build a 302 on the cheap.

OR... you can use 6.250" Chevy rods (off the shelf from Eagle) with pistons for a 383 with 6" rods (off the shelf from many piston MFG's) and build it decently.

If you want more power than the cast crank can take, then I'm sure someone makes a forged 3" crank for a Chevy... and you'll need splayed 4 bolt caps at that point as well...

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:02 pm

I recal one magazine making a "modern" 302 using an LT-1 350 with the smaller caprice crank and it made wicked horsepower.

donk_316 · Post by **donk_316** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:02 pm

I didnt know that Will. Thanks for the info. In that case, i would build the 302. Why the hell not.

nfswift · Post by **nfswift** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:52 am

I'm digging this 302 idea, except for the increased wear on engine components, after all the faster you spin it the less life you're gonna get out of it. And reliability and longevity are two that are very high on my list, right up there with HP/TQ...

Damn, as many reasons to do it as not to do it...

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:50 am

Its not like the car will live at 7500rpm. The occasional blast to redline won't hurt it.

As was said before, there is less wear on a 302 at 7000rpm than there would be on a 350 or 383 at 7000rpm due to slower piston speeds. If anything, wear will be reduced with regular driving and on par with the other motors at redline.

Just make sure to get good strong rods, probibly the part of the motor that will see the most stress.

nfswift · Post by **nfswift** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:50 am

It wont? Why does it make peak HP at 7,000RPM then? That means it probably still has balls at 6,000...

Most V-8's are not safe at 6,000. I didn't know it was SANE to rev a stock 350 to 7,000...

I'm just saying the faster RPMs mean more overall wear and stress on rotating parts like the crank and cam. Even if the math says the pistons move slower, everywhere that I've read people have unanimously said that 302s require considerably more upkeep?