Time to vent.... and I'm not talking Coors Beer

[EBSB52]

If you look at the transition from the 70's of worker's pay and benefits you see a situation where the average skilled worker received a living wage, vacation, retirement, health benefits and other reasonable benefits. Enter fascist pig Ronnie, union busting and all the elitist garbage from the right and now my industry has adopted a new low: they want to pay us all as contractors (1099) and yet pay the same wage as if we were regular employees.

I'm working that way now on a temp job and as I look for other work, it's out there, but they seem to want to pay us by 1099. Now what are the advantages of 1099 to the employer?

- No workman's comp

- No unemployment

- No FICA match

- No vacation

- No health benefits

- Probably things I'm not thinking of

What are the disadvantages of 1099 to employees?

- Tack on 14% more in taxes on top of your amount owed after you're done paying your taxes via 1040SE and 1040C.

- None of the above advantages, and of course, including retirement.


Now true contractors that are registered with the Registrar of Contractors, guys that come out and change your AC unit and make 2-4k profit, they get 1099'd, that's what that's for, but to 1099 a direct employee is ass-raping and a descension of the last bit of dignity that is left. People are leaving this business by the droves and many employers are having a tough time filing slots, but some employers still insist on 1099. They bill out acft labor at 45-60 hr in most places and then bill out GM line mechs at 100+/hr, which is a joke, it should be inverse. I've been trying to leave this pathetic career for 13 years now, the time I entered college, Jan 96.

Some of this is systemic, most of it is good ole Republican greed and idiots too dumb to understand that voting this way leads to this kind of union busting and now total revocation of any/all benefits. The right wing nuts fear total socialism and decry the slippery slope of such if we allow organized labor. Truth is that the slippery slope of most of the last 28 years of Republican neo-fascism has led to the beginning of even the separation of employer-match FICA, unemployment, social security, etc..... Does OSHA even apply in an environment like this? Republican ideology is garbage, the US is garbage; fuck I wish I had a way out of here other than Canada......

[Sinister Fiero]

Do me a favor and take off your shirt and shoes. Look at the tags. Where are they made?

[Indy]

1990's: Enter public greed

[Shaun41178(2)]

so lt me get this straight. You are working a temp job, which if I had to guess is less then 40 hours a week? Am I wrong? Is it less then 40? If it is then stop crying about not getting benefits.

[EBSB52]

Do me a favor and take off your shirt and shoes. Look at the tags. Where are they made?

So what does the fact that clothes are made overseas have to do with the Republican neo-con movement to separate benefits, FICA, healthcare, etc from employees? Senseless argument.

[EBSB52]

1990's: Enter public greed

Nice try to tie in greed to the Clinton admin. Not only patently false, as CLinton did plenty to further employee rights, the 80's was the Me Generation, which is where Republican neo-fascism and greed started. Union busting started then, the separation of healthcare started then, etc.....

[EBSB52]

so lt me get this straight. You are working a temp job, which if I had to guess is less then 40 hours a week? Am I wrong? Is it less then 40? If it is then stop crying about not getting benefits.

It's a long term temp job and the other job I applied for was permanent, but classified as a contractor so I can pay their taxes too. Why the assumption that it's less than 40, helps to build your strawman?

[Indy]

1990's: Enter public greed

Nice try to tie in greed to the Clinton admin. Not only patently false, as CLinton did plenty to further employee rights, the 80's was the Me Generation, which is where Republican neo-fascism and greed started. Union busting started then, the separation of healthcare started then, etc.....

"Patently false" would be that I tried to tied greed to the Clinton admin. That's why I said "public".

[EBSB52]

1990's: Enter public greed

Nice try to tie in greed to the Clinton admin. Not only patently false, as CLinton did plenty to further employee rights, the 80's was the Me Generation, which is where Republican neo-fascism and greed started. Union busting started then, the separation of healthcare started then, etc.....

"Patently false" would be that I tried to tied greed to the Clinton admin. That's why I said "public".

You wanted to tie an ill time to Clinton, which is false, patently false, or whatever adjective or or other grammatical tool you wish to use. Under Clinton, the deficit turned to a surplus and the debt virtually turned flat for the first time in a long time, not to mention mass prosperity on most/all classes. We have been a greedy nation since we have been capitalists, that's just an attribute that goes along with it, but under fascist Ronnie we started to allow corporations to run our countries, shift wealth to them and ignore and make void employment laws. Of course the recent Bush finished it off with his Overtime Law that he spent his entire first term pushing thru congress and even weak Dems folded, the stronger ones like CLinton and Kennedy did not fold however, I guess they are the true communists as per the right wing radical crowd.

On this parting note, most Americans are ignorant, selectively so, to Marxism and Carl Marx. On his headstone reads, "Workers of all lands unite." http://users.cihost.com/ata/marx/29large.jpg I ask what is wrong with that, it infers a brotherhood, rather than a capitalistic knifing in the back of each other. Early American capitalists have masterfully made the idiot American believe that shoveling ass-loads of cash to the rich is a postive thing. Now I don't agree with communism on many levels, at least everyone in communism has basic healthcare, so how is capitalism so great when 1:6 peopel have zero healthcare and most of the other 5:6 have a corporation decide if their need is worthy? Of course if you have a complaint you can run it by their panel of million-dollar lawyers.

[Indy]

You wanted to tie an ill time to Clinton, which is false, patently false, or whatever adjective or or other grammatical tool you wish to use. Under Clinton, the deficit turned to a surplus and the debt virtually turned flat for the first time in a long time, not to mention mass prosperity on most/all classes. We have been a greedy nation since we have been capitalists, that's just an attribute that goes along with it, but under fascist Ronnie we started to allow corporations to run our countries, shift wealth to them and ignore and make void employment laws. Of course the recent Bush finished it off with his Overtime Law that he spent his entire first term pushing thru congress and even weak Dems folded, the stronger ones like CLinton and Kennedy did not fold however, I guess they are the true communists as per the right wing radical crowd.

On this parting note, most Americans are ignorant, selectively so, to Marxism and Carl Marx. On his headstone reads, "Workers of all lands unite." http://users.cihost.com/ata/marx/29large.jpg I ask what is wrong with that, it infers a brotherhood, rather than a capitalistic knifing in the back of each other. Early American capitalists have masterfully made the idiot American believe that shoveling ass-loads of cash to the rich is a postive thing. Now I don't agree with communism on many levels, at least everyone in communism has basic healthcare, so how is capitalism so great when 1:6 peopel have zero healthcare and most of the other 5:6 have a corporation decide if their need is worthy? Of course if you have a complaint you can run it by their panel of million-dollar lawyers.

DUDE, read what I'm writing, not what you apparently already know I'm saying.

[Shaun41178(2)]

It's a long term temp job and the other job I applied for was permanent, but classified as a contractor so I can pay their taxes too. Why the assumption that it's less than 40, helps to build your strawman?

Long term or not, is it less then 40 hours a week? Its a simple question, just answer it.

[Sinister Fiero]

Do me a favor and take off your shirt and shoes. Look at the tags. Where are they made?

So what does the fact that clothes are made overseas have to do with the Republican neo-con movement to separate benefits, FICA, healthcare, etc from employees? Senseless argument.

Senseless? What is senseless is people like you who always want to blame other people for their problems (and even along party lines; might I remind you who signed NAFTA). When the fact is IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU who make the purchasing choices that send jobs overseas.

I remember working on American made cars that were made in the 70's which you claim to be the pinnacle period of existence for labor in this country. Those cars were the worst built (fit/finish/quality) pieces of junk ever made. If we wouldn't have opened our economy and trade to the world, cars today wouldn't be much better and they would all cost in excess of $50,000 for just a base model! I think it is ridiculous that a guy working on the line at GM TODAY that does nothing but turn a screw all day on the same model of vehicle makes $70+/hr in wages and benefits when guys who work at the auto repair shop struggle to make $20/hr and have to be able to work on many different year/make/models of vehicles which requires a bit more education; + don't forget the huge outstanding bill they have with the tool guy so they can have the tools required to do their job. How is that fair?

The problem is greed. And it works both ways. People doing work demand more money but people having the work done want to keep their money so you have a problem going both ways here and something has to give. And if you think Socialism is the cure, you had better study up on your history. Every place Socialism has been tried: it has failed. It has failed because nobody is allowed to excel in a socialist society. Socialism breeds laziness. And the lazy people aren't going to work if someone else pays their bills. And pretty soon, the people working that pay the bills are going to say "why the hell should I be working so hard for these deadbeats?" And then they will quit working too.

But you can start turning it around for yourself. You can stop buying foreign made goods and DEMAND American made goods. They are available, you just have to look. Yes they might cost more, but isn't that what you want is to keep people like yourself working???

[EBSB52]

You wanted to tie an ill time to Clinton, which is false, patently false, or whatever adjective or or other grammatical tool you wish to use. Under Clinton, the deficit turned to a surplus and the debt virtually turned flat for the first time in a long time, not to mention mass prosperity on most/all classes. We have been a greedy nation since we have been capitalists, that's just an attribute that goes along with it, but under fascist Ronnie we started to allow corporations to run our countries, shift wealth to them and ignore and make void employment laws. Of course the recent Bush finished it off with his Overtime Law that he spent his entire first term pushing thru congress and even weak Dems folded, the stronger ones like CLinton and Kennedy did not fold however, I guess they are the true communists as per the right wing radical crowd.

On this parting note, most Americans are ignorant, selectively so, to Marxism and Carl Marx. On his headstone reads, "Workers of all lands unite." http://users.cihost.com/ata/marx/29large.jpg I ask what is wrong with that, it infers a brotherhood, rather than a capitalistic knifing in the back of each other. Early American capitalists have masterfully made the idiot American believe that shoveling ass-loads of cash to the rich is a postive thing. Now I don't agree with communism on many levels, at least everyone in communism has basic healthcare, so how is capitalism so great when 1:6 peopel have zero healthcare and most of the other 5:6 have a corporation decide if their need is worthy? Of course if you have a complaint you can run it by their panel of million-dollar lawyers.

DUDE, read what I'm writing, not what you apparently already know I'm saying.

Dude, what you're tyring to say is: Republicans = al good / Dems = all bad. Make your point if you have one, perhaps evenstart to address some of mine since you've avoided them in trying to defend the Nazi Party and general American ball of shit that has seperated benefits from the American worker since fascist Ronnie.

One problem here is that most users here are young, < 30 and they have been acclaimated to no benefits as a norm, whereas my generation watched the fascist pig Republicans yank them away while some fought, many laid down.

[EBSB52]

It's a long term temp job and the other job I applied for was permanent, but classified as a contractor so I can pay their taxes too. Why the assumption that it's less than 40, helps to build your strawman?

Long term or not, is it less then 40 hours a week? Its a simple question, just answer it.

I thought I did. The job I currently have varies, sometimes more than, sometimes less than 40. The same guy installs fuel tanks in MD80's and employs several guys at least full-time and pays them the same way, as contractors.

The new potential employer was definately full-time, probably overtime. So I see your argument that part time work can be contractor and it wouldn't affect a thing, but that is false as well. I would still have to pay his taxes by being paid as a 1099 contractor, no FICA match, no unemployment, workman's comp, etc. I realize you guys are in denial and will say whatever you have to to disagree with me, but you guys are also young and weren't around when the worker had rights and bought into the RW rhetoric about personal responsibility and think it's neat that we have gross class seperation. I'm sorry to tell you that Obama has just undone most of Bush's employer gifts that fucked the American worker.

[EBSB52]

Do me a favor and take off your shirt and shoes. Look at the tags. Where are they made?

So what does the fact that clothes are made overseas have to do with the Republican neo-con movement to separate benefits, FICA, healthcare, etc from employees? Senseless argument.

Senseless? What is senseless is people like you who always want to blame other people for their problems ...

You're right, bring back slavery and indentured servitude. See, I'm not blaming anyone, but the norms had been grossly changed in my business to include me losing all of my benefits and now to pay my employer's taxes, of course you won't address that. As for senseless, I can critically think and have far more education than you, squirt. Now we can be Nazi like you and now shift further to a norm of an extra hour per day of free time to the employer so he doesn't have to pay for set up and shut down time and anyone who wines is just looking for a free lunch. You kind of idiocy has no bounds.

(and even along party lines; might I remind you who signed NAFTA).

You're actually dumber than I originally thought. NAFTA was initiated by GHW bush and signed by Clinton, hence it was systemic. Furthermore it was a tax cut in reality, since we had been doing a lot of business with Canada and Mexico anyway, this just eased restrictions and taxes.

When the fact is IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU who make the purchasing choices that send jobs overseas.

You're that guy that turns every argument into one of products made overseas. American labor laws are independent of trade deficits and are controlled by presidents / congress and trashed by ones that you elect. Trade deficits have zero to do with labor laws.

I remember working on American made cars that were made in the 70's which you claim to be the pinnacle period of existence for labor in this country.

Are you not intelligent enough to avoid confusing labor laws with trade deficits and product quality? There is zero correlation between labor laws and any of your argument. Please draw this argument without being abstract. Furthermore, poor quality cars is an issue of lazy engineering, planned obsolescence, etc, not the American worker.

Those cars were the worst built (fit/finish/quality) pieces of junk ever made. If we wouldn't have opened our economy and trade to the world, cars today wouldn't be much better and they would all cost in excess of $50,000 for just a base model!

AGREED!!! So therefore we should punish the American worker by revoking healthcare and now making him/her pay their employers taxes? Again, no correlation. As well, I'm speaking of my career and American acft are still the best in the world....please don't bring up Airbus or I'll have to shut you down with ease there. SO once again, you failed your argument.

I think it is ridiculous that a guy working on the line at GM TODAY that does nothing but turn a screw all day on the same model of vehicle makes $70+/hr in wages and benefits when guys who work at the auto repair shop struggle to make $20/hr and have to be able to work on many different year/make/models of vehicles which requires a bit more education; + don't forget the huge outstanding bill they have with the tool guy so they can have the tools required to do their job. How is that fair?

OK, so let's be a fascist pig like Reagan and apparently you and use the lower as an index. For one, that $70 is the total cost to GM including overhead, inviolable costs, etc, not wage. The right wing trash posted that number without any support I've seen and I'm sure used a 20+ year guy. That number is undoubtedly an aberration if not an abstraction. As well the GM guy making whatever wage he does has been there a chunk of time, whereas the other guy is often transient with employers. Again, that doesn’t address my issue and avoids it; I'm for both the guys you illustrated for not having to pay their employer's taxes and for having healthcare. Perhaps if the guy working on multiple cars wants a bigger paycheck he can get a job where he has to stay at for 5 years to make top rate and 20 years to have security. That loyalty is rewarded and I guess should be. My GF has worked for the Sheriff's Office for 29 years and earns 55k. She does simplistic admin BS, any kid could do it, but she is rewarded for her loyalty and long-term service, so the GM employees are the same in that respect.

The problem is greed. And it works both ways. People doing work demand more money but people having the work done want to keep their money so you have a problem going both ways here and something has to give.

Yes and apparently you think I'm greedy by wanting my employer to pay his own taxes. I'm also greedy by wanting basic healthcare. Oh please explain how the little guy is greedy. And then for a start actually address my issues instead of morphing them to your issues.

And if you think Socialism is the cure, you had better study up on your history. Every place Socialism has been tried: it has failed. It has failed because nobody is allowed to excel in a socialist society.

I see, we have 100% capitalist nation, 100% Socialist nations or 100% communist nations? And you want me to brush up? Ever hear of quasi? Canada is a quasi-capitalist, Quasi-socialist nation and it work FAR better than America that is predominantly capitalist. Wanna see debt numbers? Wanna see what happens to class disparity and debt increases when your party enters office versus when my party enters office? The experiment is over, RW fascism has failed, now we move onto Dems quasi-soc/capitalism. Just like when the Nazis (Repubs) threw us into the Great Depression, we had 5 terms of Dems consecutively and we escaped. Then we had 2 terms of the Great Eisenhower, last true Republican, then came Kennedy/LBJ who signed the 1964 Civil Rights Act and angered the racist pigs of the Bible Belt to the point that they switched parties, these were known as the Yellow Dog Dems. Since then the only Dems elected were from the south, Carter and Clinton until now.

SO tell me where socialism has failed? The USSR was communistic, which is why they failed. Please don't ignorantly try to confuse socialism with communism as another abstract argument. A few part of communism are ok, but most of it, esp the part about utilitarianism sucks. The RW has become quit utilitarian as of late. Socialism is great and has succeeded in many venues. Gross capitalism is failing, don't think so, just look around.

Socialism breeds laziness. And the lazy people aren't going to work if someone else pays their bills.

Pure socialism or communism perhaps, quasi-soc/capitalism, no, just look at Canada.

And pretty soon, the people working that pay the bills are going to say "why the hell should I be working so hard for these deadbeats?" And then they will quit working too.

Actually I think it works the other way where ingenuity is not fully rewarded, but that's more like communism. Again, neo-con trash culminate the two to build their strawman.

But you can start turning it around for yourself. You can stop buying foreign made goods and DEMAND American made goods. They are available, you just have to look. Yes they might cost more, but isn't that what you want is to keep people like yourself working???

Oh I see, buy all American or pay my employer's taxes? See, you have taken my argument and skewed it into yours; buy American. You won't understand it, but there is no correlation. Unless you’re saying I have to make my employer rich before I can stop paying his taxes. BTW, I love American-made stuff, I have a Snap-on KR1000 taco wagon tool box full of snap on tools. Most of my air tools are American-made as well. I own a Fiero. So please, back to our regularly scheduled thread about benefit declination and the American worker.

[Shaun41178(2)]

if you aren't working a steady 40 hour work week, then you don't qualify for benefits of any kind. Plain and simple. Thats the way the law is written.

Now if you think you are being treated unfairly with your job and being taxed unfairly as a contractor, then quit and STFU.

My job employs thousands of people. However we also contract out much of our work. Those contractors don't get the same benefits as we do since they don't work for the company directly. However they make 2-3 times as much money as we do too so they can go and get their own medical coverage or anything else. Should they complain? If they want benefits as health insurance through the company itself then they shouldn't be a contractor in the first place and work for us directly. However they make the decision to be a contractor. Just like you made your decision as well.

If you don't like it then quit!!!!!!!! And go find a job that pays medical benefits and takes out less in taxes.

All you do is fucking cry about how its everyones fault why you are where you are in your life. Its old

[EBSB52]

if you aren't working a steady 40 hour work week, then you don't qualify for benefits of any kind. Plain and simple. Thats the way the law is written.

Which law is that, the one you just made up? Labor laws were written largely back in the FDR era with the 1938 FLSA, then modified by the neo-con's favorite trash, GWB with his Overtime Law he spent his first term shoving thru congress. Then anyone pathetically stupid voted for him again even after seeing this, reelecting him. There is no law requiring workers be paid benefits, this isn't Western Europe, this is trash America. It is federal law for all Western European countries that workers receive between 4 and 9 weeks vacation per year, depending upon which nation you are in. Even wonder why other countries are eating American businesses up so fast? Low taxes and scant employer protections, then you hear pathetically stupid neo-con trash say our taxes are too high when they are amongst the lowest in the industrialized world. They would be substantially lower if we didn't match the world dollar for dollar in military spending, outspending #2 by 8 times. BTW, #2 isn't an enemy but our best aly: GB, furthering the irony that we spend so much.

There is no guarantee/law that your employer will provide any benefits, so your assertion is invalid as soon as you typed it. But if you work even part time for an employer as a regular employee, the employer must comply with tax laws and match FICA, pay unemp ins, workman's comp, etc., and this is my point you all conveniently avoided. If you read my answer, I do work over 40 sometimes and the new job was a 40-hour regular permanent job, just treated like a contractor so I could pay his taxes too, like a good underling POS would. As well, the saem guy I work for is paying many other long-term, full-time employees as contractors, has been for a while. He ofered me the same and I said I would finish this project and be gone. See, no matter what I give you on a platter, you're going to ingnore it and differ. Just look at my original post and try not to navigate around it, it's pretty plain.

Now if you think you are being treated unfairly with your job and being taxed unfairly as a contractor, then quit and STFU.

Being hired as a regular, full-time, long-term employee as I was offered by both employers, then told it will be as a contractor is a pile of shit, I don't care if you disagree. So STFU and fuck yourself. This is my point, nowhere did I speak of mistreatment, but you need to morph the subject to maintain your Nazi status. Really, just go reread the OP, it isn't that difficult. The trend within my trade and within the country has been to shift the burden from the employer to teh employee in spite of the fact that the wealth spread is widening and it is due to neo-con trash Republican tampering, I've cited several points you ignore.

My job employs thousands of people. However we also contract out much of our work. Those contractors don't get the same benefits as we do since they don't work for the company directly. However they make 2-3 times as much money as we do too so they can go and get their own medical coverage or anything else.

GOD DAMNIT THANK YOU!!!!! NO FUCKING SHIT - THIS IS MY POINT. They want to hire me as a regular employee, same rate, but have me pay their taxes like a neo-con Republican trash would have me do. As an update, that employer I talked to called, came over on Friday and looked at the Cessna 182 I'm doing several STC's on and then offered me the job with no BS. I turned him down. He left realizing he fucked up. Nice guy, typical sleazbag RW millionaire cocksucker. Fuck him, fuck this business, they wanna squeeze guys like me with 20-30K in tools, 25+ years experience, all of my licenses and real love for this work then they can fuck themselves and go to the A&P schools to hire some newby to fuck everything up.

Should they complain? If they want benefits as health insurance through the company itself then they shouldn't be a contractor in the first place and work for us directly. However they make the decision to be a contractor. Just like you made your decision as well.

Again, agreed. In nursing RN's can go what they call, "Pool." That's where they earn a few bucks an hour more and waive all benefits. It's the RN's choice and they can go back and forth with it. My point was that I was being offered a job and a wage that is comensurate with a regular employee, yet then he tried to backdoor the contarctor thing. I had a long interview with him, he showed me all their projects and was really impressed with me, but then the greedy trash neo-con took over in him and he tried to get me to pay his taxes and he fucked himself. He wrestled with himself over it I know, then he called me to come look at my work, his hanger is a mile down from me, he saw it and wanted me. Fuck him.

If you don't like it then quit!!!!!!!! And go find a job that pays medical benefits and takes out less in taxes.

I'm giessing you don't fully understand what it is tax-wise to be a contractor, you file a 1040 C and a 1040 SE, the employer generally takes out no taxes, you deal directly with the IRS and pay them.

My point here is that the trend, as established by Republican garbage, is to shift from employers providing an array of benefits in teh 1970's to that of the employee paying the employers taxes. If you followed the chronology of the OP you would have seen that.

All you do is fucking cry about how its everyones fault why you are where you are in your life. Its old

All you do is love on the Republican system and ignore any real, justifued issues; it's typical.

[Dirty Sanchez]

If you have a job, be glad you do.

[EBSB52]

If you have a job, be glad you do.

Yea, there's something to that, but when the tax bill is figured and I owe a few thousand dollars, it won't mean as much. I'm just chronicalling the errosion of worker's rights/benefits as done by the right wing. The latest attempt were horrible. They were 2-fold:

1) Use stock market accounts instead of social security - we see what happened there.

2) Give people a 5k tax writeoff to get their own healthcare and at the same time tax employees healthcare benefits if they don't play ball and drop them from their employer. - The 5k would then go to 2k and then go away and this wasn't a a credit like EIC, you simply wrote that off your gross.


The Republicans have gotten the underclass to go along with many acts of employee dterioration, glad the people finally woke up. Here's a neat thing our awesome president did for working people:

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/01/30 ... 4772.shtml

[Shaun41178(2)]

if you don't like paying taxes then quit your job. Its that simple. No work means you don't pay any taxes.

I am not going to pay your medical bills though even though you think I should. And if you think this is trash america then move to western europe where everything is hunky dorey. You won't move though because you won't have anyone to blame for the state of your bad health and anything else that you feel is wrong with your life.

Move to europe or canada. I DARE YOU!