Healthcare on way, sorry sociopathic Repubs

[EBSB52]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090221/ap_ ... h_reform_1

People in the U.S. spend $2.4 trillion a year on health care, or about $7,900 per person. That's more than twice as much per capita as in other advanced countries. But few would claim those dollars are buying good value. The costs are a staggering burden for taxpayers, employers and families, and the recession is leaving more people without insurance.

And how many hospitals are going BK? Hospitals, doctors, etc, as a whole are doing quite well at the expense of patients very limited care or none at all. Sorry elitists, we actually have a descent president that won't work for legal immunity as the last piece of garbage did, but work for getting everyone healthcare.

Obama sees coverage for all as a goal to be reached in steps. His plan would not require every individual to purchase insurance. The estimated cost is about $90 billion a year, to start with.

About 1/6th of the annual military budget, not counting gifts to Halliburton via Iraq funding.

Conservatives and insurance companies fear that a public plan offered to workers and their families could become the gateway for Canada-style government health care for all.

Yes, coverage for all, what kind of sociopathic Republican could sign off on that?

Employers, hospitals, doctors, and drug companies worry that the government's already pervasive influence in health care will become stifling.

Right, how can drug companies, doctors and hospitals keep milking the cow when the government gets involved and actually regulates? Amd employers, fucking idiots, they should let it go, it could relieve them from having to supply healthcare.

Baucus has already outlined a plan that differs in some key details from Obama's. For example, it contemplates taxing some health insurance benefits to raise money for expanded coverage. That's an idea Obama has rejected but one that certain Republicans favor.

Right, taxing employees who receive employer-provided healthcare.....and the neo-Nazi-trashpublicans scratch their heads wondering why they're watching the real politicians run the country? What a joke.

Watching and waiting are people such as Robyn Perry, 56, of Lake Worth, Fla., who recently lost a job with health benefits. She has struggled to find coverage now that she is self-employed. Private plans are either too expensive or won't take her because she had a ministroke several years ago. A plan sponsored by local government accepted her, but won't cover her outside her county.

REACTIONS:

- Republicans: Personal repsonsibility
- LIbertarians: I didn't cause your illness, why should I have to pay for it?
- Democrats: Help is on the way, we just need to convince 3 sociopaths (Republicans) in the senate and we can help.

[Shaun41178(2)]

I spend about $280 a year on healthcare. I wonder where these figures are coming from?

I would much rather be a sociopath then a socialist.

[EBSB52]

I spend about $280 a year on healthcare. I wonder where these figures are coming from?

.

Yea, I don't know either, but the general assertion that healthcare in teh US is and has been ridiculously priced and pathetically administered is moot; other countries provide more for less. Of course doctors in socialist countries don't have 3 whores each driving a new beemer, but I would rather have a system that caters to the many than the few, as is the US.

More on your healthcare, probably a co-premium I'm guessing, not hardly the whole plan. What people are forced to do is to get catastrophe insurance, meaning a massive deductable, 10k or more. Taht wasy if they need a heart trasnplant they can get one, or dialysis, etc. I'd rather have the gov decide my fate than a corporation.

I would much rather be a sociopath then a socialist

Mission accomplished, as your hero asserted. You do see the trend shifting, don't you? Nationally, the country is now willing to accept some form of uni-care. Hell, I was against it when Clinton proposed it and I didn't have any coverage then either. All it takes is time to be exposed to BS and people change. Look at the overwhelming shift in government, the House is dominated by Dems, the senate almost filibuster-proof. If enough Repugs block measures that Obama wants, the next mid term will give us the 60 seats. Not sure who comes up, I could look it up, but it's early yet. The Repugs better play ball or it's their ass and they will be litterally become politically insignificant. Obama may become a top 5 president if this shit straightens in 1 to 2 years and we lead the world out of this mess, then he raises taxes on the rich and starts to attend to the debt. Perhaps then we can revoke this 2-term limit on presidents. I'm getting ahead of myself a bit, but this guy is really special as far as presidents go. If things begin to repair, can you imagine the landslide in Nov 2012? Christ, what did he get, 370ish EV? Can we say 440+? You'll always have neo-cons voting against success for failure, as demonstrated by the last 8 years and then the 12 years of Reagan/Bush.

[Xanth]

I would much rather be a sociopath then a socialist.

X2

[EBSB52]

I would much rather be a sociopath then a socialist.

X2

And then your mom, your wife, your kid needs an operation and all of the sudden - poof - instasocialist. Seen it more times than I can count.

[Shaun41178(2)]

I think its funny. There are people out there right now without health insurance and need operations they don't have the money for but get them anyways. Guess who pays for that? You me and everyone else.

And no, my wife, kids or whoever else would have insurance so I guess that means I will never get to live the dream of being an instasocialist.

[GT86]

Seen it more times than I can count.

So you've seen it what, 4 or 5 times?

Obamacare isn't likely to come soon, given the immense costs it would incur and the fact that the economy is in the shitter. Pull your head out of your partisan ass and take a look at what's happening in other countries that have socialized medicine. Take a real look, not just at the glib pronouncements that they have a better system. Many if not all of the socialized healthcare countries probably won't be able to support their systems too much longer. Have you ever lived in a heavily socialist country? Ever talked to immigrants from these countries? They paint a much different picture that the crap you normally spew.

And the overwhelming trend you mentioned is simply the pendulum swinging. We as a country get tired of one party in power for too long, and decide to go the other way, especially when times are bad. Given the historically low approval ratings for Congress, and the growing disdain for Pelosi and Reid, I wouldn't crow too much about being in power. Besides, now that the Dems have the majority, they'll take more of the heat for the problems. It's easier to be the minority party and complain than it is to be the majority party who wields the power and sets the agenda.

The stimulus plan didn't meet overwhelming approval, even among Dem voters. Obama is starting to back off of some of his campaign promises, angering some of his far-left base, and even he acknowledges he'll have a tough time getting re-elected in 2012 if the economy isn't humming along by then. Sooner or later the love affair with him will end, as people realize he isn't a savior but simply another politician. And given the Dems propensity for trying to push stupid things through when they're in power (e.g more gun bans), they might not even have a majority after the 2010 midterms. They'll fall out of favor just as the GOP did, and the pendulum will go the other way. And it doesn't matter which party is in charge, since they're about the same. Sure, they use different talking points to get themselves elected, but at the end of the day they're all about running the country deeper into debt and restricting personal liberties.

You might actually be an interesting person to have discussions with if you weren't such a partisan hack. You're so blinded by envy and propaganda that you've lost the ability of critical thought--if in fact you ever had the ability.

[EBSB52]

.

I think its funny. There are people out there right now without health insurance and need operations they don't have the money for but get them anyways. Guess who pays for that? You me and everyone else.

No, not usually, only emergency care is given, that is all that is required. Once they can walk, they're out. There are access programs, but they don't cover a lot, I don't know a lot about them, never been on them. But hypothetically even if your point is correct, only the far underclasss gets help, the lower middle class and middle class do not, then the upper middle class and above get it, so it is funny, funny how the backbone of the country is exclued. What a funny story in such a sad, pathetic country. In other civilized nations they provide all people basic care, that isn't so funny, is it?

And no, my wife, kids or whoever else would have insurance so I guess that means I will never get to live the dream of being an instasocialist

Uh, either you don't read my posts or your dope smoking is ruining your ability to recall and/or focus. I posted that you should watch the movie, The Rainmaker, it's about a guy that had insurance and the ins co didn't and wouldn't pay for his bone marrow operation. He sued, but he died while it was in littigation. So my point: I would rather the gov that has accountability decide my fate rather than a greedy corporation. But your guy, Bush, wanted to basically immunize doctors and insurers by lowering their liability to 250k or less, so basically you pay your premiums, your kid needs years of dialysis, the ins co decides it is cheaper to pay the 250k rather than pay for what could be a lifetime of dialysis and somewhere maybe a kidney transplant which could be in the millions altogether. So you have insurance and trade your kid for 250k because you're to illiterate to read and understand that voting for trash like Bush could lead to you or one of yours dieing with health insurance. But just think of how you could trick your Fiero out for 250K....... start reading and using your head, reevaluate your priorities and I believe they are with your family and friends.... the Repukes are for the rich, not for people.

[EBSB52]

Seen it more times than I can count.

.

So you've seen it what, 4 or 5 times?

Several friends, my dad and Ray Crone, a guy who spent 10 years in prison for starters.

Obamacare isn't likely to come soon, given the immense costs it would incur and the fact that the economy is in the shitter.

Oh, the costs. Unlike the history of military spending. We spend 8 times what #2 spends and virtually match teh world dollar for dollar in military spending; more if you count Iraq funding for Bush's buddies. This isn't a cost issue, Obama is going to act on this and if some Maggotpublicans get in the way, bye-bye in 2 Novembers, Senators if they are up. Hmmmmm, the economyh is inthe shitter? Wonder how it got that way????? By spending 600b/yr + Iraq costs for several years now? Tax cuts and interest rates waaaaaaaaaay too low? Wonder who's responsible for that? Oh, it must have been the Dems since they took over the House for the last 2 years. I wouldn't speak for Obama if I were you, neo-con, your kind is done with politics, possibly forever. When the Repukes make a comeback, they'll have a new protocol in their pocket and it won't be neo-conesque.

Pull your head out of your partisan ass and take a look at what's happening in other countries that have socialized medicine.

^th grade dropout, I've voted for both parties and even Independant Perot, both presidentially and congressionally; you also are a waste of fucking skin as with the rest of your neo-trash buddies. Now have I voted neo-trash? No way, you have and are proud; what an absolute idiot.

What happens in other countries with uni-care? Everyone has healthcare. Perhaps the upper class don't have care that is as good as it is here, but the middle and lower classes have access to it, unlike here. SO if you're an elitist, fascist piece of trash like you, you want the uppers to have better and the lowers to have none. I prefer everyone have it and so does the country, so sit with the other neo-trash and watch how politicians work.

Take a real look, not just at the glib pronouncements that they have a better system. Many if not all of the socialized healthcare countries probably won't be able to support their systems too much longer.

Have evidence or is this an in-between bong hit revelation? Really, show your evidence. And the US, how is it working? We're so close to the brink of total bankruptcy that to point at pther countries and make GUESSES at their fiscal well-being is pathetic.

Have you ever lived in a heavily socialist country? Ever talked to immigrants from these countries? They paint a much different picture that the crap you normally spew.

Unlikeyou, draft-dodging coward, I've been all ove rthe SOuth Pacific in the military. I've been all over the US as well. Shall we talk who has basic healthcare? China, Russian and the broken-off countries, all of Western Europe, all those shitty little islands in the South PAcific, etc. SOme real fucked up places have uni-care, we do not, we cater to the rich instead.

And the overwhelming trend you mentioned is simply the pendulum swinging. We as a country get tired of one party in power for too long, and decide to go the other way, especially when times are bad.

Just amazing that when the Dems sucked pre-Civil War, this PArty called the Republican Party came along and fixed shit. Then the R's started fucking things up, so after 4 years of Hoover trash, the people brought the Dems in for several terms to fix things. So this pendulum isn't some basic tiring of the color of the carpet as you would idiotically assert, it is the tiring of a given party acting in a corrupt fashion and fucking up badly. You as well haven't addressed Bush's and Clinton's data that I posted in the other thread; real shocker there. Instead you want to casually act as if it's just a normal changing of the season. Get ready, neo-trash, you won't likely have your party in power for possibly 2 decades.

Given the historically low approval ratings for Congress, and the growing disdain for Pelosi and Reid, I wouldn't crow too much about being in power.

You say this with 2 straight election cycles of Repugs getting absolutley hammered in congress. You have zero to support your assertion but the guys at the bathhouse saying how they hate these people, whereas the voters have done nothing but slam the Repukes out. Try supporting your guessertions with something tangible, clown. If Obama fixes shit, I think it's fair to say that the Dems will hold the White House and Congress for both of Obama's terms and 2 subsequent ones, AT A MINIMUM.

Besides, now that the Dems have the majority, they'll take more of the heat for the problems.

Not the existing problems fabricated by your party, but new problems that would be created by Obama, assuming there will be some. Not all people are as stupid as you, Clinton left with a 60%ish approval even after a ridiculous impeachment. Bush is considered the 37/38th president of 42, the problems we now have are primarily his fault, or so the people beleive which is what matters. Clinton didn't turn the corner until early into his second term, yet he was reelected. You, as the rest of tyeh neo-trash, have no basis for your wild guesses.

It's easier to be the minority party and complain than it is to be the majority party who wields the power and sets the agenda.

Good, then consider it a blessing that your party is done for 8 years, probably more like 2 decades+. Also, it was pretty easy when Clinton was in power and fixed things, so I don't see your point. Now being a Bush supporter like you, I'm sure it was painful. Fortunately for me, Obama is no Bush so it's easy for me now.

The stimulus plan didn't meet overwhelming approval, even among Dem voters.

Yet they all voted for it along with 3 Repub Senators..... you make really good points.

Obama is starting to back off of some of his campaign promises, angering some of his far-left base, and even he acknowledges he'll have a tough time getting re-elected in 2012 if the economy isn't humming along by then.

Which promises? His approval is huge and he only won the populous vote by a 45 / 52% margin, so apparently not all neo-cons are as dumb as you. As for reelection, he's just being humble, he's focusing on the here and now; he doesn't care about the 2012 election now.

Sooner or later the love affair with him will end, as people realize he isn't a savior but simply another politician.

Good neo-con, long on guesses, short on supporting evidence.

And given the Dems propensity for trying to push stupid things through when they're in power (e.g more gun bans), they might not even have a majority after the 2010 midterms.

That was a flaw of Clinton, Obama is too intelligent for that. That isn't his agenda anyway. Furthermore, to put the final nail in your guessertions, Clinton was huge in the Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban during his first term, yet he was reelected after all that by a fair margin. You're the most brilliant SOB I know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... tion,_1996 I apologize, I mean a fucking landslide, 379 EV to 159 EV for Dole.

They'll fall out of favor just as the GOP did, and the pendulum will go the other way. And it doesn't matter which party is in charge, since they're about the same. Sure, they use different talking points to get themselves elected, but at the end of the day they're all about running the country deeper into debt and restricting personal liberties.

Oh God, a Libertarian nutjob; you coulda warned me. I loev this, 'fall out of favor.' You mean get run outta town in a huge way, I agree. Bush and the Repukes didn't fall out of favor, Hoover and the Repukes didn't fall out of favor, they were nailed up the ass for several consecutive terms. The Dems fucked shit up so bad in the 1840's-1850's that they got owned for most of teh next 50 years. Quit the rationalizations, Bush and beloved Repugs were and are owned. Oh that's right, you're a Libertarian, you always get owned with your 3% populous vote. That is considered < politically insignificant. Of course a Libertarian is just 10 degrees from a Republican anyway.

You might actually be an interesting person to have discussions with if you weren't such a partisan hack.

VOTES:

1980: Carter
1984: Mondale
1988: Duchakis
1992: Perot
1996: Dole
2000: Gore
2004: Kerry
2008: Obama

As well as the 1994 slaughter of the dems in congress, I voted R in that too. Actually 92 and 96 were congressional R votes as well. I plan on voting for Jan Brewer, Republican Gov of AZ who took over for nasty Napalitano. You're a clueless fucking turd.

You're so blinded by envy and propaganda that you've lost the ability of critical thought--if in fact you ever had the ability

Envy whom? Yet another idiotic nothing from you. What propaganda; I post data and historicla fact? You live on the neo-trash rhetoric, I research data and fact. Funny being told I don't critically think when I'm virtually the only person posting data. You're a joke.

And before you start crying about the names, read your post and realize that you started it - I have no issue with it.

[Indy]

sociopathic Republican, neo-Nazi-trashpublicans, sociopaths (Republicans), Repugs, Repukes, Maggotpublicans, waste of fucking skin, draft-dodging coward, absolute idiot, neo-trash, Libertarian nutjob, clueless fucking turd, not all people are as stupid as you.

I spend about $280 a year on healthcare. I wonder where these figures are coming from?

Yea, I don't know either

I research data and fact. Funny being told I don't critically think when I'm virtually the only person posting data. You're a joke

[EBSB52]

sociopathic Republican, neo-Nazi-trashpublicans, sociopaths (Republicans), Repugs, Repukes, Maggotpublicans, waste of fucking skin, draft-dodging coward, absolute idiot, neo-trash, Libertarian nutjob, clueless fucking turd, not all people are as stupid as you.

I spend about $280 a year on healthcare. I wonder where these figures are coming from?

Yea, I don't know either

I research data and fact. Funny being told I don't critically think when I'm virtually the only person posting data. You're a joke

Uh huh, the similarities are that we all call names, difference is that I actually post data, historical events/facts. And like a good little neo-fascist pig Republican, you do the same and refuse to address any data. SO you're just the same. Look at Pontiac man, he and I haven't traded any BS, as we didn't start any with each other. I really enjoy constructive debate, but you neo-trashers simply won't - you just run from the data as I mean really, how are you gonna debate it. I considered myself a Republican in the early 90's and I'm actually still registered that way for lack of a reason to change it. I weighed the facts and realized what the neo-con party was about. The Republican Party is honorable as Eisenhower ran it, but the trash: Nixon, Reagan and GWB have run it into the ground and gone against the basic tenets of its protocol. And look at that, 2 of teh 3 pigs I mentioned are ranked #37 and 38 of 42 presidents.


If I bother posting data, some of the arguments from the last week, will you address it? Come on, calling you out - we'll keep it clean, no abstract arguments, no fictitious data; do want me to post some?

[Shaun41178(2)]

hahahhaha eb owned once again. too funny.

[EBSB52]

hahahhaha eb owned once again. too funny.

You have to actually answer the issues to own someone. Clem, you are such a loser/coward.

[AkursedX]

All I want to know is why you keep posting here?? This is an automotive forum in support of the Pontiac Fiero. Do you even have one? I have never seen you post in a topic outside of "anything goes".

You might want to try a place like http://www.debatepolitics.com or http://www.arguewitheveryone.com. I'm sure you will find more people willing to agree or disagree with you and will take time to research their arguments.

[EBSB52]

All I want to know is why you keep posting here?? This is an automotive forum in support of the Pontiac Fiero. Do you even have one? I have never seen you post in a topic outside of "anything goes".

You might want to try a place like http://www.debatepolitics.com or http://www.arguewitheveryone.com. I'm sure you will find more people willing to agree or disagree with you and will take time to research their arguments.

That's why I don't politics in other than the Anything goes section. I have been in the Fiero internet world for 10 years now, owned Fieros for 15+, so it's not as if I just dropped in. I own a Fiero, a 99 N*, all the crap to finish it, I just happen to live in a Nazisociation, so I can't even park in the street, hence the project is on hold until I get out of here. Point is, I know some people don't even have Fieros, yet they post here. I think a better question is: Why would you come to this thread and care? I don't think you post in AG thatoften, w/o checking, so why would you come here; to support your buddies? Hmmmm, sounds so.... Idon't know, P-F-Fish. Let it go, if you want to debate the issues I've posted, address away, you'll get a fair response. If you want to exchange barbs, have a good time, we can do that, but why come here and ask why I'm here other than your buddies asked you to, that's the reral question.

As a note, you've been human to me, hence that draws a human response.

1 more point, I have posted there, not that long ago as I recall. I used to post there a fair amount. My question is that of how can you post in the AG section when you rarely post here? (sarcasm in casa ya didn't figure it out)

[AkursedX]

That's why I don't politics in other than the Anything goes section. I have been in the Fiero internet world for 10 years now, owned Fieros for 15+, so it's not as if I just dropped in. I own a Fiero, a 99 N*, all the crap to finish it, I just happen to live in a Nazisociation, so I can't even park in the street, hence the project is on hold until I get out of here. Point is, I know some people don't even have Fieros, yet they post here. I think a better question is: Why would you come to this thread and care? I don't think you post in AG thatoften, w/o checking, so why would you come here; to support your buddies? Hmmmm, sounds so.... Idon't know, P-F-Fish. Let it go, if you want to debate the issues I've posted, address away, you'll get a fair response. If you want to exchange barbs, have a good time, we can do that, but why come here and ask why I'm here other than your buddies asked you to, that's the reral question.

As a note, you've been human to me, hence that draws a human response.

1 more point, I have posted there, not that long ago as I recall. I used to post there a fair amount. My question is that of how can you post in the AG section when you rarely post here? (sarcasm in casa ya didn't figure it out)

I know you've been around a long time. I've been a Pee-F-F member since 2000 and read the board every day. I honestly just wanted to know if you even owned a Fiero anymore.

[EBSB52]

That's why I don't politics in other than the Anything goes section. I have been in the Fiero internet world for 10 years now, owned Fieros for 15+, so it's not as if I just dropped in. I own a Fiero, a 99 N*, all the crap to finish it, I just happen to live in a Nazisociation, so I can't even park in the street, hence the project is on hold until I get out of here. Point is, I know some people don't even have Fieros, yet they post here. I think a better question is: Why would you come to this thread and care? I don't think you post in AG thatoften, w/o checking, so why would you come here; to support your buddies? Hmmmm, sounds so.... Idon't know, P-F-Fish. Let it go, if you want to debate the issues I've posted, address away, you'll get a fair response. If you want to exchange barbs, have a good time, we can do that, but why come here and ask why I'm here other than your buddies asked you to, that's the reral question.

As a note, you've been human to me, hence that draws a human response.

1 more point, I have posted there, not that long ago as I recall. I used to post there a fair amount. My question is that of how can you post in the AG section when you rarely post here? (sarcasm in casa ya didn't figure it out)

I know you've been around a long time. I've been a Pee-F-F member since 2000 and read the board every day. I honestly just wanted to know if you even owned a Fiero anymore.

Yep, it's an 87GT, 5-speed. I have an extra Getrag and 3 or 4 Isuzu's for it. Like I said, since I've been here in Nazi-villa, I've had the cradle modified and the flywheel drilled, other than that I'm so fucking bound in by this GD association. Associations are a real example of what lemmings Americans are. They believe
that associations keep their property values higher, which is BS. All the people I know dislike them, other than board members, but they are too nutless to organize a drive to limit or oust the association. There are some real nice non-assoc areas in Tempe, that's by ASU, they use neighborhood watches and call the police if people get stupid with noise or trash their house; city ordinance governs that shit, these areas are nicer than Nazi-villa. If I owned here I would be all about that, but I don't and my GF is one of those lemmings. Anywho, sorry for the tangent, just wanted to explain why I'm not driving my Foero but paying stoarage for it.

[Shaun41178(2)]

you obviously bought into the association and its practices since you live in one. you can only blame yourself.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Lack of HOA has been one of the things I've been looking for in a house around here. HOA dues are money flushed down the toilet... not as bad as condo fees, but still pretty useless.

I'm moving out of the rental next week. This area has a HOA and the only thing I've ever gotten for the landlord's HOA dues are letters telling me to move my trashcan inside. It was tucked behind and overhang in front of the garage door and *almost* completely hidden from the street... certainly not sitting out in the middle of the driveway. I guess the HOA has to justify its existence somehow.

[AkursedX]

Lack of HOA has been one of the things I've been looking for in a house around here. HOA dues are money flushed down the toilet... not as bad as condo fees, but still pretty useless.

I'm moving out of the rental next week. This area has a HOA and the only thing I've ever gotten for the landlord's HOA dues are letters telling me to move my trashcan inside. It was tucked behind and overhang in front of the garage door and *almost* completely hidden from the street... certainly not sitting out in the middle of the driveway. I guess the HOA has to justify its existence somehow.

I didn't come across many places that had HOA's around here thank goodness. I have pretty much free-reign to do what I want. But I do try to keep most of my work limited to the garage.