The Dark Side of Will wrote:Tubing bender.
Tube end profiler/notcher (for shaping round tubes prior to welding)
Flow bench?
Are you looking for a CNC mill or a manual mill? If manual, a basic Bridgeport is as good as it gets. I have a Bridgeport with 3 axis CNC conversion (table + power quill feed) in storage, but I don't know much about other CNC options.
A LOT of tool boxes/cabinets. They add up. If you're planning to build up a work shop and *get work done*, you'll need to spend a lot of effort making sure its organized so you're not wasting time looking for tools, parts or materials that you know you have.
Flow bench was another one I would like to get, or build.
Red up on "lean manufacturing".
all good suggestions, tubing bender/notcher will be added to the list. I was planning on getting a manual mill, and then in the future getting a conversion kit.
fieroguru wrote:My first recommendation is to list all the projects you would like to do or be able to do in the future.
that could get dangerous...
as a general rule, I like to do everything with my own two hands rather then pay someone else. not because I'm cheap, but because I enjoy being able to say I did it.
That being said, I like doing engine swaps, fabricating mounts and brackets, headers, porting, custom manifolds, ect. I wouldn't mind getting into custom suspension work too, but that's a spot I just don't know much about.
I also want to have the capability to cast aluminum parts up to the size of an intake manifold.
fieroguru wrote:
Many items on your list come in a vast array of sizes and you need to make sure your purchase will work and not need upgrading in a short period of time. I would also recommend you focus on finding good used equipment vs. buying new. For a hobby/part-time use good used equipment is a good balance between investment costs and capability.
Good used equipment was definitely in the plan, as was capacity, I wouldn't want to have to do 3 setups to machine one part...
fieroguru wrote:
Lathe: Smaller ones spin faster for small pieces and the larger ones spin slower. So if you are going to turn some 1” shafts, a smaller lathe will be faster than a larger one. I have a 9” Southbend bench top lathe with 36” bed and it works well for most items, but I am also looking for a 16” lathe for flywheels and other larger items. A 10” lathe with the largest through hole is probably the best compromise if you are only looking for just one lathe. Make sure it has a selectable gear box for the power feeds vs. needing to swap gears as well as the taper attachment. The name brand ones also will have power feeds in both X & Y directions. You can find a 9-10” lathe in the $750 to $2K range. Tooling and chucks are expensive, so don’t be afraid to pay more if it comes with more tooling.
Very helpful as usual, thank you, I didn't know much about metal lathes. this is something I need to research in depth, I've used wood lathes several times, but never a metal lathe.
fieroguru wrote:
Mill: Vertical Mill is what you are looking for (there are Horizontal ones as well). Again there is a vast range of sizes and styles. There are quite a few bench top models that are fairly light, easy to move and run on 110V. However, these won’t have the table travel for larger items so you may be required to do multiple setups. The head position might not be as adjustable as well. I have a Lincoln (Bridgeport Series 2 knock off) with a 50x12 table, 35x17 table travel, 3HP 3 phase variable speed head (reduced to 2hp due to static phase converter), articulating head (can pivot front to back, or side to side), with x-y DRO and power feed in the x direction. Paid $1100 for it on Ebay and had to drive to Pittsburg to get it. These larger mills take up quite a bit of space and can weigh up to 4K lbs, so they aren’t the easiest to move. Many of the older larger machines have more features than a newer cheaper version today. If it is a name brand or a knock-off, then you can also get CNC conversions for it later on. There is a series 1 knock off CNC vertical mill for about $4500 near me that I would like to have, but no room at the moment.
I was thinking about trying to find an older bridgeport and doing a CNC conversion. the mill and the lathe are the #1-2 on my list because with them, I should be able to accomplish quite a bit.
fieroguru wrote:
Welders(TIG and MIG): Stick with a name brand that is supported by your local welding supply shop, as you will want to be able to have it serviced when needed. I would get 220V versions for both, and buy a RV power cord and swap ends so you can use your welder anywhere in the garage and even a short distance into the driveway. Start with the MIG as it will be a lower initial investment. Many newer MIGs come with a spool gun for aluminum, so you can get by w/o the TIG for a while. Many of the lower end TIGs won’t work on aluminum very well, so if you want to weld aluminum make sure your model will do that. If you plan to weld mild steel, stainless steel and aluminum, you will have 3 welding gas bottles to store as well. I only have a MIG – Lincoln ProMig 175 220V purchased at Lowes with a 20% off coupon for about $500 with cart as well.
I already have a Lincoln Promig 180 back home, whether it'll still be mine or not when I need it... Me:"hey dad, where's my welder" Dad:"that's my welder don't you remember?
" I was aware of the gas bottles, learned about that when I bought the Promig. I'm really wanting to get a good TIG, hopefully by the time I am ready to pull the trigger prices on these will have come down some... I'm not holding my breath though...
fieroguru wrote:
Cutting torches: Only needed if you are going to cut/bend really thick steel. This tool is one of the largest causes of garage fires… I had one for 3 years, but never used it and turned back in the bottles when I moved. I don’t really need one.
didn't realize they weren't as useful. might get taken off the list then.
fieroguru wrote:
Plasma cutter: Again stick with something that can be serviced locally and get the largest one you can afford (220V). I would prefer the plasma cutter setup on a 4x4 or 4x8 table so you can cut brackets either via CNC or with an optical copy cat setup (draw part with a sharpie and camera follows the line to cut the part). Just make sure to look closely at the specs and how much time it takes to cut 1” of travel in 16ga, 1/8” or larger. Many of the 110V models are really, really slow. A Sawsall or 4 ½” cutoff disk on a hand held grinder will accomplish the same for lower initial costs –these are what I use, but they are hard on the joints in your arm long-term.
I don't care for cut-off wheels, too many close calls with them. I didn't know they made optical copy plasma cutters, that's pretty cool. I hadn't considered one on a table like that, but it makes sense. as far as plasma and welders go, I wouldn't consider anything less then 220v anymore.
fieroguru wrote:
Car Lift: Lots of options, but if you want the most versatile lift, then stick with a twin post. Asymmetrical twin posts give you more room to open the doors, but the symmetrical ones are lower cost. There are styles with the hose and cables running along the floor (under a ramp plate) as well as overhead (which keeps the floor flat and smooth, but might need taller ceilings). I wouldn’t get one lighter than 7K lbs for general use as many trucks are 6500 lbs or more. I purchased mine used (Grand, 9K, symmetrical twin post, floor mounted cables/hose) from a muffler shop when they upgrades to 4 post lifts for the large diesel trucks. You can usually find used lifts for $500+ on craigslist.
I started pricing lifts, I was honestly surprised by the price, I thought they would be quite a bit more then they are.
fieroguru wrote:
Big compressor: Mine is a 220V 5hp w/60 gallon take with a single stage pump ($400 new), but there are smaller and larger options and even dual stage compressors for even higher CFM and pressure. If you can listen to the compressors run, spend more for one that runs quieter… or plan to partition it off. Also look at an air dryer or a water/oil separator. Some will say you need an oiler for your air tools, but if you oil them manually from time to time you don’t need it (and it keeps oil out of your hoses).
i've never run an oiler on my air tools, I just oil them as i go. I can see where an oiler would come in handy depending on what tools you're using, and how frequently you use air. I was thinking a 60-80 gallon, and on it's own pad off of the shop to keep the noise down.
fieroguru wrote:
Depending on what you want to get into, you might think about adding these tools as well:
Heavy duty vice: I use mine all the time and have gone through a couple of them . Many times I use it with a hand held mini sledge hammer, so make sure it is large and heavy. It also helps if the jaws will separate more than 6” as I use it for a small press as well.
Heavy duty work table/bench: Either metal or wood. I have a metal one that is about 5x5 and about 30’ of wood benches bolted to the walls (2x6 frame, ¾” plywood, then ¾” oak hard wood flooring on top).
6” belt sander: good for flattening exhaust flanges or smoothing cuts on longer parts. The 6” ones are typically longer than the 4” ones and the 4” ones are too short for a SBC flange to be 100% on the flat part of the belt. I have one of each.
Vertical Band Saw – I have a 14” Rockwell vertical band saw that was setup for wood. I have collected everything to pulley it down to be a steel version, but haven’t made the time to do the conversion. So far I have about $200 in it, but it is an older model that is very heavily built. Vertical band saws are better for cutting brackets and easier on your arms/elbows vs. the sawsall.
Sheet Metal Shear: mine is a 36” Pexto 16ga foot shear (about $200-$750 used), but I would like to upgrade to a 60” one ($800 - $2500).
Metal Brake: Mine is a 48” homemade version, but isn’t a box pan brake. I would like to upgrade to a 60” box pan brake ($1500 – $3000).
Hydraulic Press 12-20 ton: they come in handy for pressing parts together or taking them apart. Can also be used to bend 3/16 to ¼” steel for brackets if you have the right dies.
Tubing Bender: I would like something that will bend up to 2” round tubing w/o any kinks. Something like a JD2 manual bender or even the air over hydraulic. A tubing notcher to go along with it would be nice as well.
Large Sand Blasting Cabinet: I would like one large enough to fit the rear cradle in.
Large electric oven: for powder coating. I will probably build a large enclosure and cannibalize a craigslist oven for the heating elements and controller.
some of these last few items I was thinking about today, the oven, and brakes. I like the idea of using a craigslist oven. I also though about making a hot tank of sorts, get a couple of hot tub elements, or hot water heater elements, and put them in a 55 gallon drum with a small pump.
the press and the vice also came up today, nothing like having a good vice, and a press is much more versatile then I could imagine.
The Dark Side of Will wrote:An industrial dishwasher makes a great parts cleaner, especially if it can fit entire cylinder blocks, heads, intake manifolds, oil pans, etc.
Deep sink.
There's synergy in some of the tool selections, also. With a CNC plasma and a brake, you can build a custom sheet metal monocoque body... if you have the design skill and patience.
I like the idea of the heavy duty dishwasher, I thought about that before I joined the navy for the shop I was going to build back home. hot water does a damn good job of cleaning things.
Deep sink is another good one, but that will go more into the design of the actual shop.
surprised nobody has mentioned a beer fridge yet...