I spoke with Loyde on the phone about this issue. This thread took a turn for the worst, and while that may have been out of my hands to control, It was more in my control to keep this thread on track.
Loyde still is going to build the harness and we've come to an agreement with what has come to be of this an issue. I appologized for my interpretation of this transaction and Loyde was understanding enough to accept it.
As far as I know, situation has been settled bettween the two of us.
Has anyone ever actually RECIEVED a harness from Loyde?
Moderator: Series8217
Has anyone ever actually RECIEVED a harness from Loyde?
Last edited by Jinxmutt on Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Shaun41178(2)
- Posts: 8464
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:12 pm
- Location: Ben Phelps is an alleged scammer
I have never dealt with lloyde but this is the way I look at it.
If you are paying for a service from someone no matter for, you should expect your product taht you are paying for to be finished or delivered within a reasonable time. If he says august then it should be august. Plain and simple.
he is only shooting himself in the foot.
I don't know what it is but it seems Fiero vendors just aren't the best when it comes to good customer service.
He was quick to take your money right? Ask for your money back and see if you can find someone else that can do it.
If you are paying for a service from someone no matter for, you should expect your product taht you are paying for to be finished or delivered within a reasonable time. If he says august then it should be august. Plain and simple.
he is only shooting himself in the foot.
I don't know what it is but it seems Fiero vendors just aren't the best when it comes to good customer service.
He was quick to take your money right? Ask for your money back and see if you can find someone else that can do it.
I think that's part of the problem, there's not exactly a huge market of people doing that work. So whether it's indifference to the customer, or just being overwhelmed with projects, it doesn't really leave you with many options.Shaun41178(2) wrote: He was quick to take your money right? Ask for your money back and see if you can find someone else that can do it.
I'm not dogging Lloyde, I'd rather have him work on my car then West Coast Fieros. But it's not like you can go to Burger King if you don't like your Big Mac.
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Shaun41178(2)
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- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:12 pm
- Location: Ben Phelps is an alleged scammer
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Sinister Fiero
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:10 pm
- Location: Waterloo, Indiana
- Contact:
Well after reading what you and the annon Old Europe member wrote, I can't say that I am surprised, considering my experiences with Loyde. I promised myself that I wasn't going to talk trash about another vendor openly but I don't consider what I am about to say as "talking trash", because it all actually happened and is true.
As some of you may know, I started a thread on Old Europe almost a year ago about a bad experience I had with Loyde. Keeping with typical Old Europe tradition, Loyde's cronies (including V8Archie) jumped all over me for speaking the truth because it exposed what I thought were some shady business practices. Anyway, on to what happened:
Over a year ago, when I still lived in Iowa, I agreed to do a 3800 Series II SC / 4T65-E swap for a gentleman who lived about 1 hour from me. Because he was going to use the 4T65-E trans, this meant I had to use the OBD-2 PCM, which I had never previously had done. (Usually I would do a 3800 Series II SC swap with the 4T60-E trans that way I could go OBD-1). Well, at the time I did NOT have the resources to program my own OBD-2 PCM's; so I contracted Loyde to do these services. Since I reprogram chips myself, I know the kind and amount of information one needs when doing a PCM reprogram. I sent all of this information off to Loyde, and I was quite specific that all OBD-2 specific trouble codes (post cat O2 sensor, EVAP fuel tank pressure sensor, etc) needed to be disabled. Well, to make a long story short I sent the PCM off to Loyde with these SPECIFIC instructions and got it back and it wasn't right. I was getting trouble codes for those specific things that I requested be disabled. Loyde's response was something to the affect: "You need to tell me which specific trouble code number needs to be disabled". Uhh, I thought, don't you have a list of all trouble codes used for that make/model/year/engine PCM program? Well as fate would have it I didn't get a chance to drive the car much because the alternator failed so I gave Loyde the trouble code that was popping up and got another PCM from him. Well once I got the new alternator installed and started driving the car more, I discovered that the transmission was slipping. (Keep in mind the engine/transmission only had something like 20,000 miles on it and the fluid I drained from the trans did not show any signs of distress). I informed Loyde about this issue and suggested that perhaps the problem was PCM programming related? Well that suggestion was met with resistance and Loyde assured me the problem was with the transmission itself. So I contacted a friend who builds these transmissions and he gave me some tests to run, including a main line pressure test.
Well to sum up what happened next, all of the mechanical and pressure tests checked out fine, until the PCM was plugged into the trans. According to my trans builder, the problem was with the PCM. I contacted Loyde with this information, and again he insisted the problem was with the trans and I needed to get it rebuilt. So I went back to my trans builder and got some more specifics about the test results and confronted Loyde again.
Well this time Loyde FINALLY admitted to me what he was doing with the PCM programming. He said that he was doing some kind of "hybrid" pcm program in which he was using 2000 trans programming plugged into 99 engine programming or something like that. Well I asked Loyde on the next PCM program to start fresh with just a single year program (same for both engine and trans) so he reluctantly did it, saying he doubted that would fix the problem. Well the new PCM arrived and I installed it to discover the trans was FINE. So that proved that I was right, and there was nothing wrong with the 20,000 or so mile trans.
Well as it turns out, with this new programming a couple of trouble codes popped back up concerning that OBD-2 specific stuff I talked about earlier. At this point, mind you, we were on PCM #4 or 5 or something like that, I was feeling the pain of about $10 shipping cost every time I had to send the PCM back. In our email discussions, Loyde had made a rude comment; something about I had a problem with talking on the phone? Which I found funny, because this is the first time the subject had ever come up about a phone conversation; all previous communications were handled just fine thru emails. So I called Loyde and we had a very long discussion (about an hour), mostly about this particular swap and other general Fiero stuff and PCM programming. Well, at one point in conversion, I discovered why Loyde preferred to talk on the phone: We were discussing my client's swap and I had said something about the problem with the trouble codes and the false check engine lights. Loyde said: "Well you need to explain to your client that this is a hybrid swap and nothing is going to work perfectly", he also went on to say something to the effect that most of the time he doesn't even hook up the check engine light in his swaps and suggested that I tell my client to either ignore it or remove the bulb.
Well this is the point I realized why Loyde wanted to talk about this on the phone. You see, unless I was recording the conversation, I couldn't prove that Loyde said these things. If it was an email, I could simply cut/paste his quote and hold his feet to the fire about what he said. In the thread over on Old Europe, of course, he denied a lot of this and tried changing the subject to something else. Something else you will notice about that thread that ended up in the trashcan is that Loyde bypassed me and found a way to get in contact with my client directly. I did end up finding out from my client that Loyde was trying to tell him that I didn't know what the hell I was doing and suggested that my client just talk to Loyde from that point forward concerning PCM programming issues. Well, that might have worked but the problem was the programming still wasn't right and when Loyde sent off a new PCM, my client needed to have me hook up my scan tool so I could do the CASE LEARN on it. Well, one of the last things my client did complain to me about was the speedo calibration being off. So that discussion got carried over into my thread where Loyde, HIMSELF, admitted that he wasn't very good at math and ASKED FOR MY HELP in determining what changes needed to be done to the programming! This coming from a guy who said I didn't know what I was doing???!!!??!!! In short, in the best interest of my customer, I supplied Loyde with the formula to fix the speedo and he got the next subsequent PCM reprogram pretty close.
Well anyway that is my story of my one and only business dealing with Loyde. There is some more shady, unprofessional, unethical crap he has pulled with me but I won't go into that in this thread. I just wanted to let you guys know the kind of treatment I got when I delt with this guy. I can tell you that when I was on the phone with him he came off with a know-it-all attitude and continually talked down to me as if I was from a lesser gene pool. It should be noted that I have talked to a few former FastFieros customers in the past year who have voice similar problems with Loyde. Well, I tried to start a thread warning everybody what happened with me and Loyde, his cronies, including V8Archie, jumped in and sent it to the trash can as well as attempted to make me look like the bad guy. Which is another reason why I am posting less and less over there.
As far as this thread is concerned, if you like Loyde, and you like doing business with him, then good for you. I am sure Loyde has helped a lot of people out with things over the year and many people have never had a problem with him or FastFieros. Perhaps my bad experience with Loyde was due to the fact that I was a potential competitor, especially now since I am getting this OBD-2 tuning stuff myself...which I will talk about in the next post.
As some of you may know, I started a thread on Old Europe almost a year ago about a bad experience I had with Loyde. Keeping with typical Old Europe tradition, Loyde's cronies (including V8Archie) jumped all over me for speaking the truth because it exposed what I thought were some shady business practices. Anyway, on to what happened:
Over a year ago, when I still lived in Iowa, I agreed to do a 3800 Series II SC / 4T65-E swap for a gentleman who lived about 1 hour from me. Because he was going to use the 4T65-E trans, this meant I had to use the OBD-2 PCM, which I had never previously had done. (Usually I would do a 3800 Series II SC swap with the 4T60-E trans that way I could go OBD-1). Well, at the time I did NOT have the resources to program my own OBD-2 PCM's; so I contracted Loyde to do these services. Since I reprogram chips myself, I know the kind and amount of information one needs when doing a PCM reprogram. I sent all of this information off to Loyde, and I was quite specific that all OBD-2 specific trouble codes (post cat O2 sensor, EVAP fuel tank pressure sensor, etc) needed to be disabled. Well, to make a long story short I sent the PCM off to Loyde with these SPECIFIC instructions and got it back and it wasn't right. I was getting trouble codes for those specific things that I requested be disabled. Loyde's response was something to the affect: "You need to tell me which specific trouble code number needs to be disabled". Uhh, I thought, don't you have a list of all trouble codes used for that make/model/year/engine PCM program? Well as fate would have it I didn't get a chance to drive the car much because the alternator failed so I gave Loyde the trouble code that was popping up and got another PCM from him. Well once I got the new alternator installed and started driving the car more, I discovered that the transmission was slipping. (Keep in mind the engine/transmission only had something like 20,000 miles on it and the fluid I drained from the trans did not show any signs of distress). I informed Loyde about this issue and suggested that perhaps the problem was PCM programming related? Well that suggestion was met with resistance and Loyde assured me the problem was with the transmission itself. So I contacted a friend who builds these transmissions and he gave me some tests to run, including a main line pressure test.
Well to sum up what happened next, all of the mechanical and pressure tests checked out fine, until the PCM was plugged into the trans. According to my trans builder, the problem was with the PCM. I contacted Loyde with this information, and again he insisted the problem was with the trans and I needed to get it rebuilt. So I went back to my trans builder and got some more specifics about the test results and confronted Loyde again.
Well this time Loyde FINALLY admitted to me what he was doing with the PCM programming. He said that he was doing some kind of "hybrid" pcm program in which he was using 2000 trans programming plugged into 99 engine programming or something like that. Well I asked Loyde on the next PCM program to start fresh with just a single year program (same for both engine and trans) so he reluctantly did it, saying he doubted that would fix the problem. Well the new PCM arrived and I installed it to discover the trans was FINE. So that proved that I was right, and there was nothing wrong with the 20,000 or so mile trans.
Well as it turns out, with this new programming a couple of trouble codes popped back up concerning that OBD-2 specific stuff I talked about earlier. At this point, mind you, we were on PCM #4 or 5 or something like that, I was feeling the pain of about $10 shipping cost every time I had to send the PCM back. In our email discussions, Loyde had made a rude comment; something about I had a problem with talking on the phone? Which I found funny, because this is the first time the subject had ever come up about a phone conversation; all previous communications were handled just fine thru emails. So I called Loyde and we had a very long discussion (about an hour), mostly about this particular swap and other general Fiero stuff and PCM programming. Well, at one point in conversion, I discovered why Loyde preferred to talk on the phone: We were discussing my client's swap and I had said something about the problem with the trouble codes and the false check engine lights. Loyde said: "Well you need to explain to your client that this is a hybrid swap and nothing is going to work perfectly", he also went on to say something to the effect that most of the time he doesn't even hook up the check engine light in his swaps and suggested that I tell my client to either ignore it or remove the bulb.
Well this is the point I realized why Loyde wanted to talk about this on the phone. You see, unless I was recording the conversation, I couldn't prove that Loyde said these things. If it was an email, I could simply cut/paste his quote and hold his feet to the fire about what he said. In the thread over on Old Europe, of course, he denied a lot of this and tried changing the subject to something else. Something else you will notice about that thread that ended up in the trashcan is that Loyde bypassed me and found a way to get in contact with my client directly. I did end up finding out from my client that Loyde was trying to tell him that I didn't know what the hell I was doing and suggested that my client just talk to Loyde from that point forward concerning PCM programming issues. Well, that might have worked but the problem was the programming still wasn't right and when Loyde sent off a new PCM, my client needed to have me hook up my scan tool so I could do the CASE LEARN on it. Well, one of the last things my client did complain to me about was the speedo calibration being off. So that discussion got carried over into my thread where Loyde, HIMSELF, admitted that he wasn't very good at math and ASKED FOR MY HELP in determining what changes needed to be done to the programming! This coming from a guy who said I didn't know what I was doing???!!!??!!! In short, in the best interest of my customer, I supplied Loyde with the formula to fix the speedo and he got the next subsequent PCM reprogram pretty close.
Well anyway that is my story of my one and only business dealing with Loyde. There is some more shady, unprofessional, unethical crap he has pulled with me but I won't go into that in this thread. I just wanted to let you guys know the kind of treatment I got when I delt with this guy. I can tell you that when I was on the phone with him he came off with a know-it-all attitude and continually talked down to me as if I was from a lesser gene pool. It should be noted that I have talked to a few former FastFieros customers in the past year who have voice similar problems with Loyde. Well, I tried to start a thread warning everybody what happened with me and Loyde, his cronies, including V8Archie, jumped in and sent it to the trash can as well as attempted to make me look like the bad guy. Which is another reason why I am posting less and less over there.
As far as this thread is concerned, if you like Loyde, and you like doing business with him, then good for you. I am sure Loyde has helped a lot of people out with things over the year and many people have never had a problem with him or FastFieros. Perhaps my bad experience with Loyde was due to the fact that I was a potential competitor, especially now since I am getting this OBD-2 tuning stuff myself...which I will talk about in the next post.
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Sinister Fiero
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:10 pm
- Location: Waterloo, Indiana
- Contact:
I would like to take this opportunity to clear up something that I said in the Old Europe trashcan thread about Loyde.
Back when me and Loyde were having issues with this PCM programming stuff, I decided to order my own OBD-2 3800 programming software so I didn't have to go through a 3rd party. Well, DHP was the cheapest so I decided to go thru them...however, there was a catch. According to their licensing agreement, I could not use the $400 package to do any commercial tuning work; IE: I wasn't allowed to offer services that would compete with anyone in the GTP community, or so I was told by Charles from DHP. Instead, they wanted me to buy the exact same package, but a commercial license for some outrageous $3000 or so pricetag. Keep in mind you aren't getting anything different than the $400 version, other than the "rights" to use it for commercial purposes.
Well I engaged in a long discussion with DHP about this licensing agreement. I told them that I could not afford the $3000 or so pricetag for the commercial license and that I would have to consider going to their competitor for their $500 tuning package which did not have any strings attached, concerning commercial programming. Well DHP agreed that they would sell me the $400 tuning package, and that they would allow me to commercially program swapped vehicles only, so long as I didn't come into the GTP community and compete with other vendors there.
Well to make a long story short I had the programming a couple of months and put up the service on my website which specifically said I would do this tuning for swapped vehicles only, therefore I was still abiding by the terms of my special licensing agreement with DHP. Anyway, I had this programming ability for a little while when this thread on Old Europe about Loyde went south. Well, out of the blue, after Loyde and I got into it on the thread, I get an email from DHP that was less than friendly, asking a bunch of questions about certain aspects of what I was doing concerning PCM programming and my license agreement. The email also said something to the effect that they were told or tipped off by someone else about what I was doing (or supposedly not supposed to be doing). Coincidence? I didn't think so at the time. See, Loyde had told me on the phone that he was going to get the DHP (he had been using HP Tuners), and by the time things went south on Old Europe, Loyde had already purchased the DHP stuff. So I drew my own conclusions that it was a very good possibility that Loyde had said something to DHP in the attempt to get my license revoked. Of course I don't have any proof that happened, but you tell me how the timing of events could just be purely coincidence? When I confronted DHP about who told them what about what I was doing, they, of course, denied they had been told anything and instead said they saw something in a thread somewhere...
Anyway, like I said, I can't prove anything. I made an accusation over on the Old Europe thread against Loyde for this and I got burned pretty bad because I couldn't prove it. Well I apologize if my accusation was unfounded but it just seemed a little too perfect of timing to be coincidence. But if I was truly wrong then I am sorry and apologize to Loyde about it. But to this day I am still convinced somebody tried to get my tuning software license revoked at that specific point in time. Which, I might add is a moot point now anyways. I sent back the DHP tuning package for a refund because it SUCKED. If anyone wants specifics, PM or email me and I will let you know what happened with that.
Back when me and Loyde were having issues with this PCM programming stuff, I decided to order my own OBD-2 3800 programming software so I didn't have to go through a 3rd party. Well, DHP was the cheapest so I decided to go thru them...however, there was a catch. According to their licensing agreement, I could not use the $400 package to do any commercial tuning work; IE: I wasn't allowed to offer services that would compete with anyone in the GTP community, or so I was told by Charles from DHP. Instead, they wanted me to buy the exact same package, but a commercial license for some outrageous $3000 or so pricetag. Keep in mind you aren't getting anything different than the $400 version, other than the "rights" to use it for commercial purposes.
Well I engaged in a long discussion with DHP about this licensing agreement. I told them that I could not afford the $3000 or so pricetag for the commercial license and that I would have to consider going to their competitor for their $500 tuning package which did not have any strings attached, concerning commercial programming. Well DHP agreed that they would sell me the $400 tuning package, and that they would allow me to commercially program swapped vehicles only, so long as I didn't come into the GTP community and compete with other vendors there.
Well to make a long story short I had the programming a couple of months and put up the service on my website which specifically said I would do this tuning for swapped vehicles only, therefore I was still abiding by the terms of my special licensing agreement with DHP. Anyway, I had this programming ability for a little while when this thread on Old Europe about Loyde went south. Well, out of the blue, after Loyde and I got into it on the thread, I get an email from DHP that was less than friendly, asking a bunch of questions about certain aspects of what I was doing concerning PCM programming and my license agreement. The email also said something to the effect that they were told or tipped off by someone else about what I was doing (or supposedly not supposed to be doing). Coincidence? I didn't think so at the time. See, Loyde had told me on the phone that he was going to get the DHP (he had been using HP Tuners), and by the time things went south on Old Europe, Loyde had already purchased the DHP stuff. So I drew my own conclusions that it was a very good possibility that Loyde had said something to DHP in the attempt to get my license revoked. Of course I don't have any proof that happened, but you tell me how the timing of events could just be purely coincidence? When I confronted DHP about who told them what about what I was doing, they, of course, denied they had been told anything and instead said they saw something in a thread somewhere...
Anyway, like I said, I can't prove anything. I made an accusation over on the Old Europe thread against Loyde for this and I got burned pretty bad because I couldn't prove it. Well I apologize if my accusation was unfounded but it just seemed a little too perfect of timing to be coincidence. But if I was truly wrong then I am sorry and apologize to Loyde about it. But to this day I am still convinced somebody tried to get my tuning software license revoked at that specific point in time. Which, I might add is a moot point now anyways. I sent back the DHP tuning package for a refund because it SUCKED. If anyone wants specifics, PM or email me and I will let you know what happened with that.
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p8ntman442
- cant get enough of this site!
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Sinister Fiero
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:10 pm
- Location: Waterloo, Indiana
- Contact:
I can reprogram up to 2005 GM Trucks (ex trailblazer body type), GTO, Corvette, etc. I am currently awaiting 3800SC and Ecotec programming software to be released (which something might be out for the 3800SC next spring).God wrote:So Sinister, you do OBD-II programming now? If so, is your swap labor the same?
I am still doing OBD-2 3800SC swaps here but I am having a local friend do my PCM reprogramming using his HP Tuners. I really don't want to run off and buy a $500 tuning software package when I already have the OBD-2 hardware from my preferred tuning software vendor (a new platform will only cost $80). Therefore, I am going to wait and see what happens with that. Until then, if you are interested in OBD-2 3800SC programming, let me know what make/model/year PCM you are working with and I can see if my friend can do it. I know he charges less than Loyde does, plus it is a custom program set up the way YOU want it.
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Shaun41178(2)
- Posts: 8464
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- Location: Ben Phelps is an alleged scammer
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Sinister Fiero
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:10 pm
- Location: Waterloo, Indiana
- Contact:
Well I don't know what to tell you guys waiting on harnesses. The only business I ever did with Loyde was PCM reprogrammings and he got those sent out to me within a few days of receiving them. I sure hope you guys waiting on harnesses get them soon.
Just so I am clear, Loyde is charging $1000 to take YOUR stock Fiero harness and a harness that came off of YOUR 3800SC to make 1 harness for you to use in your swap? Or is he supplying the 3800SC harness?
Just so I am clear, Loyde is charging $1000 to take YOUR stock Fiero harness and a harness that came off of YOUR 3800SC to make 1 harness for you to use in your swap? Or is he supplying the 3800SC harness?
He takes the complete engine harness from the 3800, the pcm, and the complete fiero engine harness and supposedly will return it all as one. So basically, you supply everything, 750 cash with programing, and then just wait, and wait.Sinister Fiero wrote:
Just so I am clear, Loyde is charging $1000 to take YOUR stock Fiero harness and a harness that came off of YOUR 3800SC to make 1 harness for you to use in your swap? Or is he supplying the 3800SC harness?
Last edited by Jinxmutt on Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.