US screams bloody murder for 1000th

[Kohburn]

US screams bloody murder over 1000th execution since 1976

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051202/wl_ ... MlJVRPUCUl

meanwhile singapore hangs drug trafficers from australia

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051202/ap_ ... MlJVRPUCUl

[EBSB52]

US screams bloody murder over 1000th execution since 1976

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051202/wl_ ... MlJVRPUCUl

meanwhile singapore hangs drug trafficers from australia

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051202/ap_ ... MlJVRPUCUl

Yep, and on a brighter note, this last spring the US Sup Ct ruled that 16 and 17 year olds could no longer be executed. Considering the US committed 19 of teh last 39 child executions, this is a baby step in the right direction.

Cap pun has been abolished by countries thought to be far less civilized/industrialized than the US, what are we waiting for?:

[p8ntman442]

I love the death penalty.

[EBSB52]

I love the death penalty.

Even if you, Clem, were on death row for buggery, I would still oppose it. Not that we as a society would miss monster truck pulls, greased pig chasing or incest/inbreeding, I am opposed to it even if the perp deserves it.

Let me ask this, Clem, if it was established that there have been 20 or 30 executions of innocent people via corrupt prosecutors, etc. since the Gregg v. Georgia reinstatement in 1976, and that there would likely be more executions of innocent people as long as we have CP, would you still be for it and why? Feel free to elaborate.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Yep, and on a brighter note, this last spring the US Sup Ct ruled that 16 and 17 year olds could no longer be executed. Considering the US committed 19 of teh last 39 child executions, this is a baby step in the right direction.

Cap pun has been abolished by countries thought to be far less civilized/industrialized than the US, what are we waiting for?:

A minor who commited an act worthy of the death penalty is no longer a child.
So how many "unnofficial" child executions have there been in the third world in the space of time that there have been 39 official child executions? Why stop counting back at 39?
Go to SE Asia and crusade against criminal trafficking in persons (as if there's any other kind of trafficking in persons).

So is capital punishment unjust, or simply the implementation?
What does capital punishment have to do with industrialization?

Should the American kid who vandalized cars in Singapore during the Clinton years have been caned?

[p8ntman442]

ok eb, Lets see here someone convicted of a crime worth the death sentence is in jail, guilty or not, how is life in prison any more just for them than the death penalty. Obviously you dont believe in god, because I would rather be in heaven than in prison for a lifetime. It all comes down to jail overcrowding and costs. If only they could streamline the process without doing away with the appeals process. Corrupt prosecutors can only go so far, then we have all your democratic non re electees to pardon 5 or 6 death row inmates the day before they leave office. Why not oppose the death penalty publicly while running for office? The Dems are no better.

[p8ntman442]

Should the American kid who vandalized cars in Singapore during the Clinton years have been caned?

FUCK YEA, bet he wont do that again.

[Aaron]

I am absolutely for the death penalty.

Tomothy McVeigh doesn't deserve 3 meals a day, in a climate controlled building with cable TV and basketball bourts. Hey, sounds familiar, just like the place I'm paying nearly $30,000 to go to, except I get a soft bed. How nice.

And about the innocent people that were killed. They aren't innocent. They are innocent in respect to the crime at hand. It would be nearly impossible for someone to point and accuse me of murder. My living day to day gives me an allaby from 2:00am to 7:00am EVERY DAY. So it'd have to be between those times, and it'd be pretty easy to prove I was in my room asleep when all 4 of my alarms are set, and reset, every night.

[V8Mikie]

Those who have studied the death penalty are almost always against it.

For one, the justice system in itself is screwed to hell. OJ gets off, Whacko Jacko gets off, and how many countless innocent people are convicted because of poor representation (unfortunately not all of us can afford the dream team). How many innocent people have been put to death? Is it worth putting a bunch of innocent people to death so you can simply get a few bad guys?

People who support the death penalty always bring up the money issue. Do you guys realize how much it costs to actually kill someone? The first appeal is paid for by the gov't. Court fees, lawyer fees all add up.

Is there a deterrence with the death penalty? The answer is a resounding NO. Texas kills more people then anyone in the country, take a look at their crime rates. They remain unchanged.

What I support is harder jail time instead of the death penalty. To me death is an easy way out for the bastards.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I tend to agree with the harder jail time mindset.

Having thousands of people rot in prison while we pay to keep them alive is stupid. It will be necessary to keep the deepest dregs of society away from everyone else, but we can at least make use of them. Handcuff them to sewing machines for 8 hours a day. Companies could pay the government a minimal fee for the use of prison labor. That would show China how cheap labor is done.

Less dangerous criminals could do the same work in other facilities, or be let outside to do (manual) road construction or other menial crew-type tasks. That way, they are learning skills and rehabilitating in preparation for their return to society instead of rotting in prison and sinking deeper into the hole. They would just need to understand that while outside, if they run, they'll get shot in the back.

Anyway, criminals should be used for the benefit of society, not just locked away to rot. What a waste of time and humanity.

There are, however, some things for which the most suitable punishment is death.

[Aaron]

Amen to Will's statement and I agree 100%.

I don't say no death penalty, becuase some things the motha fucka needs to die. Timothy McVeigh needed to die. He needed to be off this earth.

I don't even want him on the side of the road planting trees. I don't even want him to go through torture. I just wanted him dead.

And you all underestimate the power of iminent death. It is scary as hell. Let me compare it to a shot. It is a little prick, no big deal. Yet even a grown man that cna bench 300lbs is afraid of that little prick. Iminent pain. The Jackass episode where the guy stands and gets shot with a bean bag. He knew it was coming, it was the phsychological effect of imminent pain. Had I just silently walked behind him and shot him, it would have been a lot different.

Unfortunately, the only way to give people the 100% true perspective of imminant death, you have to put them in the situation. When a judge stands up there and tells you that you will be executed on this and this date, the physological effect ends your life right then and there. No doubt about it. In addition, the prisoner's fear of death builds and builds. Having wtached numerous executions on video, the prisoners, however much they try to fake it, are scared shitless. Unfortunately, we cannot give this effect to a person without directly giving it to them. Therefore the death penalty deterrence is a mute point IMHO.

I don't think it deters crime, but it definately makes one regret it.

[EBSB52]

Yep, and on a brighter note, this last spring the US Sup Ct ruled that 16 and 17 year olds could no longer be executed. Considering the US committed 19 of teh last 39 child executions, this is a baby step in the right direction.

Cap pun has been abolished by countries thought to be far less civilized/industrialized than the US, what are we waiting for?:

A minor who commited an act worthy of the death penalty is no longer a child.
So how many "unnofficial" child executions have there been in the third world in the space of time that there have been 39 official child executions? Why stop counting back at 39?
Go to SE Asia and crusade against criminal trafficking in persons (as if there's any other kind of trafficking in persons).

So is capital punishment unjust, or simply the implementation?
What does capital punishment have to do with industrialization?

Should the American kid who vandalized cars in Singapore during the Clinton years have been caned?

A minor who commited an act worthy of the death penalty is no longer a child.

Oh, so that same minor doesn’t have Constitutional rights, can serve in the military and die, can’t smoke, drink or vote, but can be held responsible via the belief that he/she is of age to understand his/her actions and the co0nsequences? See Will, that’s the problem; rights vs. responsibilities. Even your favorite neo-con maggot Nazi judges disagree with you, so you are that far out there. So who is the extremist now? Just like you didn’t like the definition of Imperialist, I bet you don’t like the example of ‘extremist’ either.

So how many "unnofficial" child executions have there been in the third world in the space of time that there have been 39 official child executions?

I don’t know, do you? What if we were only responsible for 25% instead of just below 50%, would that be so much more palatable?

Why stop counting back at 39?
Go to SE Asia and crusade against criminal trafficking in persons (as if there's any other kind of trafficking in persons).

That shows that you agree that the US is pathetic by the way you must compare us to the most egregious places on earth.

So is capital punishment unjust, or simply the implementation?

Uh, without the implementation of CP, there are no executions. Are you asking if the sentence is more unjust or the act of executing unjust? Clarify.

What does capital punishment have to do with industrialization?

It’s a standard that is used to dichotomize what is expected from countries; industrialized versus non-industrialized.

Should the American kid who vandalized cars in Singapore during the Clinton years have been caned?

Only if the people doing it feel they need to retribute for the sake of revenge. It teaches violence, but hell, we are about that, so WTF. SO if the kid grows up and beats people when they irritate him, we can scratch our heads wondering where he learned that.

[Aaron]

Why did you have to even post?

Here we go again...I'll be honest, I'm not even going to read it. Write 2 sentences and I will, if you want to write a book, go get a fucking blog.

[EBSB52]

ok eb, Lets see here someone convicted of a crime worth the death sentence is in jail, guilty or not, how is life in prison any more just for them than the death penalty.

Uh, worth the death penalty? Do you mean if a person is convicted of a crime that qualifies for CP? That changes during different times. What you don’t understand is that the system is supposed to be about the rights of the individual, not the masses in a utilitarian sense, so the protections supposedly provided by the Constitution are designed to defend that guy who was wrongfully convicted and needs appellate assistance. To back up, the system is supposed to ensure that guy doesn’t get convicted in the first place. Although the sentence is supposed to match the crime, countries have repealed CP due to inherent errors. Is it more just to smoke someone rather than have them live in a box for eternity? Most death row prisoners choose life over death, so it’s not our choice for them.

Obviously you dont believe in god, because I would rather be in heaven than in prison for a lifetime.

This is not about me or you, it’s about a system that is supposed to offer protections to defendants and convicts. God has no factor in this argument. But, as a side note, I would rather be dead too that to spend a life in a box. Some death rowers feel the same way too, as they are called, “volunteersâ€

[EBSB52]

Should the American kid who vandalized cars in Singapore during the Clinton years have been caned?

FUCK YEA, bet he wont do that again.

Please show me some statistics where deterrence actually works.....

[EBSB52]

I am absolutely for the death penalty.

Tomothy McVeigh doesn't deserve 3 meals a day, in a climate controlled building with cable TV and basketball bourts. Hey, sounds familiar, just like the place I'm paying nearly $30,000 to go to, except I get a soft bed. How nice.

And about the innocent people that were killed. They aren't innocent. They are innocent in respect to the crime at hand. It would be nearly impossible for someone to point and accuse me of murder. My living day to day gives me an allaby from 2:00am to 7:00am EVERY DAY. So it'd have to be between those times, and it'd be pretty easy to prove I was in my room asleep when all 4 of my alarms are set, and reset, every night.

I am absolutely for the death penalty.

That's because you know zero about it. Ray Crone was for it too, until he was wrongfully convicted, spent 3+ years on death row, had another trial, wrongfully convicted again, spent another 7 years in prison GP, then his family spent 300k and had a judge throw out the conviction and sued the city, state, pigs, etc..... He was on that makeover show..... He has sonce adamently rejected CP since....

[Aaron]

Clicked "stop watching this thread."

Reason: Eb hit submit...

[EBSB52]

Those who have studied the death penalty are almost always against it.

For one, the justice system in itself is screwed to hell. OJ gets off, Whacko Jacko gets off, and how many countless innocent people are convicted because of poor representation (unfortunately not all of us can afford the dream team). How many innocent people have been put to death? Is it worth putting a bunch of innocent people to death so you can simply get a few bad guys?

People who support the death penalty always bring up the money issue. Do you guys realize how much it costs to actually kill someone? The first appeal is paid for by the gov't. Court fees, lawyer fees all add up.

Is there a deterrence with the death penalty? The answer is a resounding NO. Texas kills more people then anyone in the country, take a look at their crime rates. They remain unchanged.

What I support is harder jail time instead of the death penalty. To me death is an easy way out for the bastards.

I am delighted and surprised to read this from you. I almost absolutory agree with you. This is the theme:

Is it worth putting a bunch of innocent people to death so you can simply get a few bad guys?


CP proponents need to answer this w/o skimming over it. What is your negligible number? How many innocent people can be murdered by the state for the benefit of cleaning out the garbage and have it still worth it?

Is there a deterrence with the death penalty? The answer is a resounding NO. Texas kills more people then anyone in the country, take a look at their crime rates. They remain unchanged.

Has anyone ever moved a person from one of the 38 CP states to one of the 12 non-CP states and murdered them? I have never heard of that. Deterrence arguments are a joke and are used by people who love retribution/revenge.

What I support is harder jail time instead of the death penalty.

Maybe, but then we have guys with a joint doing 2 or 3 years. More time is just another way of more deterrence, which is a joke. How about free education and rehab for non-violent, first-time offenders? How about education in jails/prisons?



Where is your education from, as in the area of the law, etc…?

[EBSB52]

I tend to agree with the harder jail time mindset.

Having thousands of people rot in prison while we pay to keep them alive is stupid. It will be necessary to keep the deepest dregs of society away from everyone else, but we can at least make use of them. Handcuff them to sewing machines for 8 hours a day. Companies could pay the government a minimal fee for the use of prison labor. That would show China how cheap labor is done.

Less dangerous criminals could do the same work in other facilities, or be let outside to do (manual) road construction or other menial crew-type tasks. That way, they are learning skills and rehabilitating in preparation for their return to society instead of rotting in prison and sinking deeper into the hole. They would just need to understand that while outside, if they run, they'll get shot in the back.

Anyway, criminals should be used for the benefit of society, not just locked away to rot. What a waste of time and humanity.

There are, however, some things for which the most suitable punishment is death.

Um, hello, they do that now. Corporations run prisons, meaning they require prisoners to work or get out of their cell rarely. That's not crule or unusual, no...

They would just need to understand that while outside, if they run, they'll get shot in the back.

So you agree with that pig, Lovelace? He shot a woman in the back after she committed a misdemeanor, kiled her dead.... brilliant...

There are, however, some things for which the most suitable punishment is death.

Circular argument - we only kill the ones we know who did it, there will always be doubt - innocent people will die.

[EBSB52]

Amen to Will's statement and I agree 100%.

I don't say no death penalty, becuase some things the motha fucka needs to die. Timothy McVeigh needed to die. He needed to be off this earth.

I don't even want him on the side of the road planting trees. I don't even want him to go through torture. I just wanted him dead.

And you all underestimate the power of iminent death. It is scary as hell. Let me compare it to a shot. It is a little prick, no big deal. Yet even a grown man that cna bench 300lbs is afraid of that little prick. Iminent pain. The Jackass episode where the guy stands and gets shot with a bean bag. He knew it was coming, it was the phsychological effect of imminent pain. Had I just silently walked behind him and shot him, it would have been a lot different.

Unfortunately, the only way to give people the 100% true perspective of imminant death, you have to put them in the situation. When a judge stands up there and tells you that you will be executed on this and this date, the physological effect ends your life right then and there. No doubt about it. In addition, the prisoner's fear of death builds and builds. Having wtached numerous executions on video, the prisoners, however much they try to fake it, are scared shitless. Unfortunately, we cannot give this effect to a person without directly giving it to them. Therefore the death penalty deterrence is a mute point IMHO.

I don't think it deters crime, but it definately makes one regret it.

And you all underestimate the power of iminent death. It is scary as hell.

OK and this..

I don't think it deters crime, but it definately makes one regret it.

Which is it? Is it scary as hell (deterrence) or does it not deter crime (I don’t think it deters crime)?

Oh Go, fucking help me.

Therefore the death penalty deterrence is a mute point IMHO.

There are 2 types of deterrence for those who are foolish enough to subscribe to it

1) Specific or special
- This is deterrence that is felt by the individual who is being punished. The idea is that he/she won’t commit the act again for fear of being punished the same way. To suggest a person can be specifically deterred is asinine due to the fact that deterrence must have choice, and dead people / people on death row have no ability to make choices.

2) General
- This is deterrence that is felt by others who on-look a person who is being punished and they will feel that they don’t want the punishment, hence they won’t commit the crime. Remember, a person who is affected by general deterrence for CP crimes only goes from life w/parole to CP. That sliver of deterrence, as they would get life w/o parole even if there was no DP.

Also, for you to try to relate how a condemned person feels is just short of enlightening. Why is it that some people feel the need top pretend they know how others feel and can relate it in verbatim fashion? There are volunteers who waive all appeals and ask to be executed….. Get it?