Real Fiero Tech

Uhhm... :scratch: That seems really excessive

haha... got him to drop the knife....... I bet he was thinking, "huh... well these guys don't fuck around.."

DiggityBiggity wrote:Uhhm... :scratch: That seems really excessive

Yeah, they should have shot him.

maybe a tazer gun would have been in order so he could fall on the knife and die - or maybe mase him so that when he goes to cover his eyes he stabs an eye out - nah just blow a toe or two off with a gun..

i think he got off easy - though the use of a car does "look" over the top.

when first pinned against the meter i though for sure the guy was dead took him a while to move again

Kohburn wrote: when first pinned against the meter i though for sure the guy was dead took him a while to move again

Yeah, then he was like...

"Ha! Okay you win!"

DiggityBiggity wrote:Uhhm... :scratch: That seems really excessive

Betcha he's a millionaire now. Of course, if he pulled that shit around here with Monterey County Stormtroopers, er, Sheriff's Office, he'd be a corpse with rich survivors. I think I'd rather get hit by a Crown Vic then a bullet, myself.

Kohburn wrote:maybe a tazer gun would have been in order so he could fall on the knife and die

check out the coats though... wouldn't work

whipped wrote:

Kohburn wrote:maybe a tazer gun would have been in order so he could fall on the knife and die

check out the coats though... wouldn't work

BOOM, head shot!!

only with a tazer gun, leave some nice burn marks to remember them by

A lot of police departments can't afford the use, upkeep, and training needed in order to provide their officers with a tazer. It is a FAR more superior "weapon" than pepper spray, but pepper spray is cheap. Our department estimates each tazer will cost them nearly $3500, once they purchase it, have a professional train the entire department, maintain it, etc. Thus our budget doesn't have the space, and the officers are left with pepper spray, which costs about $15 a can. That being said, I don't think our department has a use for the tazer.

As for that video...Um...I guess it's better that they hit him with the car than shot him, because at that point, any one of those officers would have been fully justified in killing him. However it does appear to be excessive, but if you look at the alternatives, it may have been the only option. Pepper spray is too unreliable, and you need to get close to the subject. As said before, there is a good chance they don't have tazers (Though this makes an excellent case for their superiority). So that leaves you with....? Although it does look to be obsessive, it worked. The susbject was neutralized, before causing any harm to a citizen or police officer. His injuries do not appear to be serious, and it caused him to drop the knife right then and there. If the officer would have seriously injured or killed him, it'd be a tough case. The subject was posing a direct threat to the lives of the police officers and surrounding citizens. I suspect it'd end with "You should have shot him." Which is a bit off, considering that would have done much more damage, but in a more humane manner.

A friend of mine got Tasered by the police. I beleive he's one of the three in the county to have had the pleasure of that experience.

they also don't have to shoot to kill - a non-letahl shot should have made him drop the knife pretty damn fast.. squad cars really should all have a pepper paint gun in the trunk.. if you've never seen them used its basicly a paintball gun cranked and firing paintballs full of pepper powder - so when it pops on them it not only hurts but also makes a cloud of pepper to get in their eyes, mouth, lungs... its a very debilitating/inexpensive/easy to use/non-lethal weapon.

Does anyone still read Awrong's posts in these threads? I know I don't.

Kohburn wrote:they also don't have to shoot to kill - a non-letahl shot should have made him drop the knife pretty damn fast.. squad cars really should all have a pepper paint gun in the trunk.. if you've never seen them used its basicly a paintball gun cranked and firing paintballs full of pepper powder - so when it pops on them it not only hurts but also makes a cloud of pepper to get in their eyes, mouth, lungs... its a very debilitating/inexpensive/easy to use/non-lethal weapon.

Rubber bullets also do a nice job, as do beanbag shells. There are lots of non lethal options, yet people get killed every year by cops while holding a "weapon" that can't hurt anyone standing out of arms length. And Tazers have caused some deaths, so I wouldn't exactly call that a "Non lethal" option.

just about anything has the possability of killign someone

people have died from rubber bullets to soft flesh, beanbags have stopped hearts, and mace has caused lungs to close up and other severe reactions in a few.

even AP rounds can be non lethal if you shoot them in a non-vital area then bandage them up, hell he was holding a knife right? so chop his hand off with a sword and then stop the bleeding - nice and non-lethal

seems to me that using a car was more dangerous then shooting him in the leg - a car can easily crush someone by accident - a small bullet hole can almost always be patched up if it doesn't hit a vital organ

Kohburn wrote: seems to me that using a car was more dangerous then shooting him in the leg - a car can easily crush someone by accident - a small bullet hole can almost always be patched up if it doesn't hit a vital organ

Right. So then you endanger other people standing around the street by shooting at him.

I think all officers should have a baseball bat for such an instance...

bat > knife

I'd still be worried about him throwing the knife though.

whipped wrote:

Kohburn wrote: seems to me that using a car was more dangerous then shooting him in the leg - a car can easily crush someone by accident - a small bullet hole can almost always be patched up if it doesn't hit a vital organ

Right. So then you endanger other people standing around the street by shooting at him.

I think all officers should have a baseball bat for such an instance...

bat > knife

I'd still be worried about him throwing the knife though.

ah but thats why there was a darpa grant out for new bullets that penetrate flesh but powderize when impacting something solid like a road or wall (they also had a grant out for the opposite, one that would pierce armor but explode when entering flesh)

and both bullets have been made..

anyways i think the pepper paintball guns is the most practical non lethal weapon - the beat walker cops can even cary a paint pistol with a 16 round clip. and refills

Unsafe At Any Speed wrote:A friend of mine got Tasered by the police. I beleive he's one of the three in the county to have had the pleasure of that experience.

Very pleasurable. I literally fear the day I have to have that done to me.

Kohburn wrote:they also don't have to shoot to kill - a non-letahl shot should have made him drop the knife pretty damn fast.. squad cars really should all have a pepper paint gun in the trunk.. if you've never seen them used its basicly a paintball gun cranked and firing paintballs full of pepper powder - so when it pops on them it not only hurts but also makes a cloud of pepper to get in their eyes, mouth, lungs... its a very debilitating/inexpensive/easy to use/non-lethal weapon.

Actually, by law, they do have to shoot to kill. I think the pepper spray gun is inferior to the tazer in most cases. But to say the pepper spray gun is cheap isn't very accurate. Cheap is also very relative. You have to account one for every officer on duty, maintanance, training, etc. Sure the initial cost may not be very high, but once you add in all of the support for it, it adds up, just like the Tazer.

stimpy wrote: Rubber bullets also do a nice job, as do beanbag shells. There are lots of non lethal options, yet people get killed every year by cops while holding a "weapon" that can't hurt anyone standing out of arms length. And Tazers have caused some deaths, so I wouldn't exactly call that a "Non lethal" option.

That guy was constantly walking towards every officer though, thus his striking range was constantly changing. At any point he could have, and I suspected he considered, charging one of the officers. And at under 10 feet away, you don't have much time to react. He posed a direct threat to the lives of the citizens and officers, PERIOD.

Well, people live through gunshots. So from now on, by the drug addict mental case's analogy, guns aren't lethal.

Kohburn wrote:

whipped wrote:

Kohburn wrote: seems to me that using a car was more dangerous then shooting him in the leg - a car can easily crush someone by accident - a small bullet hole can almost always be patched up if it doesn't hit a vital organ

Right. So then you endanger other people standing around the street by shooting at him.

I think all officers should have a baseball bat for such an instance...

bat > knife

I'd still be worried about him throwing the knife though.

ah but thats why there was a darpa grant out for new bullets that penetrate flesh but powderize when impacting something solid like a road or wall (they also had a grant out for the opposite, one that would pierce armor but explode when entering flesh)

and both bullets have been made..

anyways i think the pepper paintball guns is the most practical non lethal weapon - the beat walker cops can even cary a paint pistol with a 16 round clip. and refills

so the bullit misses the bad guy, hits a civilian, in the chest, and explodes in his heart?

I was sitting at a stoplight once when i looked over to my right and there was 3 cops with guns drawn at me, turns out it wasn't at me but at some guy standing in between me and the cops that was on the sidewalk.
had the guy ran at the officers, and they fired. I coulda been hit, as well as the 3 people in my car, and other people at the light along with me.
I didn't know what the fuck they where thinking, and hope they new not to shoot, but who knows.

84fierotrevor wrote: so the bullit misses the bad guy, hits a civilian, in the chest, and explodes in his heart?

no those were for military purpose only - designed ot go through body armor before fragmenting and doing maximum damage to the enemy

the ones designed to go through flesh but powderize when hitting something solid like a road/wall/ car window were designed for police work to be safer to the public

Aaron wrote: Actually, by law, they do have to shoot to kill. I think the pepper spray gun is inferior to the tazer in most cases. But to say the pepper spray gun is cheap isn't very accurate. Cheap is also very relative. You have to account one for every officer on duty, maintanance, training, etc. Sure the initial cost may not be very high, but once you add in all of the support for it, it adds up, just like the Tazer..

if that is true (and i think you are full of shit anyways) then it'd be the most retarded law in existance.

the paintball pepper equipment is cheaper than a standard issue side arm - infact some are cheaper than those fancy flashlights security guards carry - and requires no additional training if they know how to pull a trigger. how much money do police departments waste every month investigating the officers who shoot criminals, or paying off people who had "excessive force" used on them even if they deserved it? seriously - the money excuse is old