Quick Front Suspension Rebuild Question

derangedsheep · Post by **derangedsheep** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:59 pm

I finally got my control arms back from my mechanic. So I started putting everything back together tonight and im just making the bolts finger tight for now. When I tighten them to whatever the torque spec is I know the suspension has to be loaded as if the car was on the ground. Now, can I set the car onto jack stands under the LCAs at the lowest height and tighten the bolts, or would I be better off putting wheels on and lowering the car onto ramps or blocks and tightening the bolts? I want to do this right the first time so I don't ruin my new bushings.

I'm thinking that putting it on stands wont work because that will have the suspension loaded more than if it was sitting on the ground.

Let me know.

-Steve

Oh, PS. By some act of god, my wheel isn't bent. My neighbour put it on his balancing machine and it's not bent at all. W00t?

Post by **eHoward** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:11 pm

I've never attached suspension arms on anything "loaded"

derangedsheep · Post by **derangedsheep** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:20 pm

It's in Ogre's Cave. He says:

the ogre wrote: OE rubber torsion

When installing rubber bushings there is an important step that is often overlooked. Many people skip this step and the bushings are quickly ruined. This is one of the reasons many people think OE rubber bushings are junk.

The trick is knowing when to tighten the bolt through the middle of the bushing. If you tighten the bolt with the suspension hanging then the bushing ends up preloaded. The preload winds the rubber up really tight and first big bump can tear the bushing loose from the inner sleeve and ruin it.

What you want to do is run the nut on the center bolt up close but not tighten it. Then lower the car onto blocks so the suspension takes the full car weight. Now you tighten the center bolt. Doing this lets the bushing settle so it doesn't have a rotation load when the car is at rest. This seemingly small thing is absolutely essential to long bushing life.

This installation issue applies to Control Arm bushings, Leaf Spring end bushings, and any others used in a similar fashion.

Now I notice he says put it on blocks. But it would be a harder job to get the torque wrench in there if the wheel is on. It would be much easier if its on jackstands.

Post by **eHoward** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:55 pm

If the suspension is loaded and you tighten the bolt, the bushing is then preloaded.

If you tighten the bolt with no load, it is not preloaded.

Pyrthian · Post by **Pyrthian** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:57 am

jack stands is fine. it would be a very tough task with the wheels on.

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:20 am

The suspension must be in the same position as it is when the car's sitting on its tires. Putting jackstands inboard of the ball joints will NOT accomplish this.

Basically, to get the suspension in the right postion, you must support the car's weight somewhere on the steering knuckle/hub carrier. The easiest way to do this is with the wheels on and the car up on ramps or blocks (or a drive-on lift).

Is there a service station with a drive-on lift near you? Drive your car there slowly, have them put it up on the lift and tighten the bolts to the correct torque. This should be doable on any alignment rack or similar weight-on-wheels lift

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:22 am

eHoward wrote:If the suspension is loaded and you tighten the bolt, the bushing is then preloaded.

If you tighten the bolt with no load, it is not preloaded.

Well... I guess that's pre-loaded...

But tightening the bolts with the suspension in one position, then forcing the bushing to live at a different position causes the bushing to be pre-torqued... which will cause it to fail prematurely. The center sleeve will separate from the rubber.

derangedsheep · Post by **derangedsheep** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:23 pm

I dont know of anywhere nearby with a drive on ramp. My mechanic/neighbour only has a frame lift. I guess I will put the wheels on and lower it onto blocks or ramps.

Since I will need an alignment anyway, would it be a bad idea to just crank down on the stuff and when I take it in for the alignment have them check the torque on everything and get it where it needs to be? I take it to the dealer for alignments since theyre cheeper than anywhere else and its only about 10 miles away. So it's not like it would be driven really far with possibly loose bolts.

I'm thinking it would be best to just find a way to torque it all at my house.

Also. I got the balljoints from a friend. He had bought them and never installed them but he lost the bolts and stuff for them. I bought new bolts (10.9 grade) at Advance. Should I use lock washers on them too? The bolts that should come with it have crushed threads so they cant back off so I figured lockwashers would be good if I didnt have that kind of nuts.

derangedsheep · Post by **derangedsheep** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:40 pm

FUCK THIS SHIT!

I cant fucking find any of the fucking nuts that I need. Im missing the castle nut for one of my lower balljoints and the nut for one of the uppers. Does anyone carry ones that are the same? Fuck no! Why should they? This fucking car is fucking cursed.

Post by **eHoward** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:17 pm

Pep boys, advanced auto and the like all carry that shit.

derangedsheep · Post by **derangedsheep** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:29 am

I went to Advance, Autozone, Home Depot, and a speed shop that has a full machine shop. No one has them or knows where they could be found.

richfiero · Post by **richfiero** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:44 am

this site has a bunch if nuts. http://www.fastenal.com/web/products.ex ... =999602449

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:24 pm

Try a Nut and bolt store.

They exist and have like every odd sized thing you can think of.

Its called Daytona Nut and Bolt down here. Just look in the yellow pages for a Nut and Bolt place.

derangedsheep · Post by **derangedsheep** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:08 pm

I went digging through every box, jar, drawer, and pile of nuts and bolts that I could find and I found a castle nut that fits the lower and at a little "hole in the wall" hardware store I got one that fits the upper.

So I put the drivers side all together except for the rotor and caliper. And I move to the passenger side and I get the lower arm in just fine. I go to put the upper in and the fucking bolt doesn't line up. So I'm all "What the hell?" I took the arm out of the car and tried to put the bolt through and my fricken mechanic bent the arm putting the new bushings in.

I'm not sure who I pissed off, but I must have pissed them off badly because I'm pretty cursed when it comes to basically everything lately.

EDIT: I clamped the arm in a vice in my basement. And then I took the old control arm bolt (so as not to chance ruining the new one) and stuck it through the offending bushing and just bent the arm back into place. It turns out that it wasn't as bent as I thought it was. After I finished lining the bushings up again, I set it on the workbench and set a level on top. It is almost perfectly level. So I think I'm going to put it in the car.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:19 pm

:afrocool: Hey man, luck is a funny thing. You can't have big good luck without big bad luck. It's a karmic Yin-Yang thing. I guess one might say that you cashed in some good luck to still be here, let the little shit slide. It all comes around.

Weponhead · Post by **Weponhead** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:51 am

If you want something done right .. DO IT YOURSELF , thats all i have to say.

derangedsheep · Post by **derangedsheep** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:58 pm

Ok, got it all back together. Wheels are on and the car is on the ground. I'm taking it for the alignment tomorrow or Thursday.

As for the control arm bolts. Here is what my dad and I decided on. With the car on jackstands, we put the jack under the LCA and jacked it up to about where the suspension would be if it were on the ground. Then we tightened the control arm bolts. We didnt crank down on them, just snugged them up. I will drive it to the dealer for the alignment and when I get it there I will tell the tech what has been done and have him tighten the bolts to the correct torque. I only have to make 2 turns to go to the dealer. One left and one right. Other than that its all straight. I'm not going to go faster than 30mph the whole way there.

Does that sound like a good plan? Or should I tell the tech to loosen the control arm bolts and then torque them incase they arent exactly where they need to be?

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:47 am

Why wouldn't you torque them all the way yourself?

derangedsheep · Post by **derangedsheep** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:50 am

We dont have ramps or blocks or anything and it's pretty hard to get the torque wrench under the car when its sitting on the ground.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:28 pm

derangedsheep wrote:With the car on jackstands, we put the jack under the LCA and jacked it up to about where the suspension would be if it were on the ground. Then we tightened the control arm bolts.

Torque them all the way like this, or just jack up the car in the middle of the front crossmember and use your jackstands on the control arms instead of blocks.
You can always put weight on the hood/front compartment to make it sit closer to how it would if it were on the ground if you have to put the jack stands too far inboard to make it stable.

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Quick Front Suspension Rebuild Question

Quick Front Suspension Rebuild Question

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