Canadian Dollar just passed the US Dollar

[EBSB52]

You are a nurse right? Lots of nursing jobs available. Edmonton and Calgary are nice cities, over a million people each.

I have my prereqs done, but never did the NET test to get into school. It's only 2 years or 16 months if you go straight thru. I'm an acft mechanic and tandem skydive instructor.

[EBSB52]

I was referring to the US as a small, Imperialistic country. We represent 4-4 1/2% of the world's population and spend almost dollar for dollar what the rest of teh world does on military, but China has a military member for every man, woman and child here. If it were about nukes, we would all be dead, all in the world but a few small pockets. With a conventional war, we would eventually lose a war of attrition since we would be outmanned 20 to 1. Sorry, we have to behave somewhat or the world will cut us off financially, then militarily if we get stupid enough.

i don't think you are accounting for the differences in technology.

look at the statistics of american deaths to insurgent deaths in this "war" we are stuck in...

americans kill something like 100 for each one that dies. thats the benefit of spending a lot of money on weapons, training and tactical comand gear along with unsurpased air support.

Yea, but look at the losers we're fighting. I mean, how do we find an easier fight, go to Ethiopia? In Nam it was 6 1/2:1. If we fought a formidable enemy we would see what war being hell was like. Look at WWII, we lost I think 1/2 million in just 4 years fighting 3 tiny countries, 2 if you count Italy as a joke. NAw, if the world stamped us Imperialists and dangerous it would be bloody and hot (nukes). If the world keeps hating us they'll just cut us off. Hell, they already have to take 1/3 less for their goods since the US Dollar has fallen that much.

[DiggityBiggity]

Welcome to the end of the United States as we know it...

Now just add Ron Paul and we'll have no social svs after we experience our next Great Depression. Another Hoover in essence.

Hey Brian, why did ya shut down the 3rd page to the Ron Paul page?

I didn't shut it down EB... it's not working for me either.

[DiggityBiggity]

By the way... maybe if the people didn't have to pay an income tax... which is illegal and is not paying for a single program in the United States, they would have more money to pay for their own damn healthcare.

I am not here to pay for everyone and their mothers healthcare, I pay for my own, and it costs me a pretty penny every month... but I don't want someone paying for mine, because then I have to be under their dictation.

If they don't like what I eat, my lifestyle, my weight, etc... they can just kick me off anyway. I won't be able to chose my own Dr. and it might take me 6 months just to see one.

I know people who live in Canada... that shit is failing!

[EBSB52]

Welcome to the end of the United States as we know it...

Now just add Ron Paul and we'll have no social svs after we experience our next Great Depression. Another Hoover in essence.

Hey Brian, why did ya shut down the 3rd page to the Ron Paul page?

I didn't shut it down EB... it's not working for me either.

Oh yea, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, I'm suuuuuuuuuuuuuure. Let's see, a so-called newby came along, posted his lame retort, Whipped came along 11 minutes later and applauded this so-called newby. Then you and Will came along within teh hour to agree, yet add nothing. Could it be that you guys were unable to retort so you locked it? In order not to trash this thread, let's take it to the part 2 thread.

[Mach10]

By the way... maybe if the people didn't have to pay an income tax... which is illegal and is not paying for a single program in the United States, they would have more money to pay for their own damn healthcare.

In the 15 years I've been in the job force, if I saved every last dime that I paid in income tax, I *STILL* would have to be making payments on the MRI I had a couple years ago when I had a bout with gastroenteritis with liver complications.

I am not here to pay for everyone and their mothers healthcare, I pay for my own, and it costs me a pretty penny every month... but I don't want someone paying for mine, because then I have to be under their dictation.

If they don't like what I eat, my lifestyle, my weight, etc... they can just kick me off anyway. I won't be able to chose my own Dr. and it might take me 6 months just to see one.

I'll race you: I'll go to the doctor tomorrow morning complaining of a lump in my left testicle. I'll have an ultrasound in 3 days, and a call from the oncologist within 2 weeks.

Just like 4 months ago, I made a doc's appointment, had an "iffy" mole looked at, and was told by the receptionist that due to the backlog at the hospital, I'd have to wait quite some time to have it removed because it was "exploratory."

So I had to sit on my hands until the following week to have it operated on.

ZOMG!

I know people who live in Canada... that shit is failing!

I call bullshit. You know ME, and I live in Canada.

You choose your own doctor; it's not like the HMO system.

It's only "failing" if you try and hit up Emerg for a hangnail.

Yes, there are horror stories, and yes, there is room for improvement.

The Largest challenge Canada's health system faces is hands-down a shortage of Doctors.

Which is ironic, because we have thousands of them immigrating here every year, but the regulatory board is slow as fuck in re-certifying them. My family doctor has a Resident from India; the guy graduated from the top universities, with top marks. He's been in Canada for 10 years, and is only now finishing the stupidity that is the sheer amount of paperwork.

Now, he's graduating with honors (again!) at the top of his class.

Poor bastard had to work as a Janitor while he saved up the $50,000 needed for the exams, licensing etc.

[Aaron]

In the 15 years I've been in the job force, if I saved every last dime that I paid in income tax, I *STILL* would have to be making payments on the MRI I had a couple years ago when I had a bout with gastroenteritis with liver complications.

So is it fair that I, a hard working tax paying citizen, who coincidentally hasn't had a medical procedure done in my entire life, has to pay a tax, an expensive one at that, to pay for your MRI?

I'll race you: I'll go to the doctor tomorrow morning complaining of a lump in my left testicle. I'll have an ultrasound in 3 days, and a call from the oncologist within 2 weeks.

I've personally never had a problem with US doctor's offices that you all speak of. Even when something unexpected came up, I was fit into their schedule that day. And if it's more serious, there is always the hospital. And at least the ones I've been to, never had a significant wait time or any other deficiency (Except that of hot nurses...)

I can't speak for Canada's healthcare, but I have no reason to be displeased with the healthcare that I've received here in the US. However my parents have healthcare coverage by employment, so maybe I receive better care than the average citizen who has to cut the check for a service/check up, I don't know. But I can't, and won't, complain.

[DiggityBiggity]

A good friend of mine (Her name is Crystal) lives in Canada, and complains to me daily about the medical care. She is thankful it's "free" but it pisses her off 70% or more of her money is taken away in taxes because of it.

She has a very serious medical condition, and for months and months the doctors couldn't figure out what it was. She came across the bridge to see an American Dr. of her choosing for a diagnosis, and BOOM... they nailed it on the head.

Now yes, this is only once example of probably thousands... but I'm sorry, socialized health care is not something I want... but if I lived in Canada I would have NO CHOICE... that's not liberty, that's ownership of me and my property... that's called slavery... and socialism is on the path towards just that.

[Aaron]

This all boils down to taxes as we know it IMO.

We have to ask what is better, a Government provided and regulated service that everyone pays for via taxes, or private services that people pay for once needed?

Let's look at Police and Fire services, compared to private ambulance services. First and foremost, PD and FD are the two most expensive services our Government offers. Together they cost significantly more than every USA military service combined. They are also by far the most expensive item in every municipal/county/state budget. By now, a good number of cities have gone to private ambulance services, instead of ambulances being provided by the Fire Department. The city now must lower taxes, as its FD budget is significantly less. The ambulance company is on contract with the city, but the city does not pay for it, it is a private company, paid solely on use. On average, an ambulance transport to the ER with paramedic attention (ie drugs), costs between $1000-$3000 to the person. Not cheap.

So which is better? An ambulance you pay for in taxes, but does not cost extra when use is needed, or an ambulance that doesn't cost anything until you do use it, then it is very expensive. It's all subjective. I have not needed to be transported in an ambulance. For me, I'd rather it be private. But my neighbor has been transported over 6 times in the past 9 years. He'd rather it be government provided, paid on tax. It is my opinion that you will find an equal split of people who want it to be gov provided, vs people who want it to be private.

So now let's ask this, which provides the better service? I don't think you can find a person alive that thinks a private ambulance company offers a better service than the FD. The FD employees are better in every way, shape, and form. They are healthier, more physically capable, smarter, more educated, and BY FAR most important, they are more devoted to the safety of the public. And in turn they are paid better, get better benefits, and get a better retirement package.

In my opinion, the FD employees are better because they are shielded from finance. They don't have to worry about making a profit, or minimalizing costs. They can focus on doing their job. Whereas the ambulance employees are constantly pressed that their service is a company, there to make money, not save lives.

By my example, if applied to healthcare, would show Canada's being far superior than our's. It's to your judgement to decide if you want to apply this to healthcare or not. Personally I have no qualms about how it is in the US the way it is. But could it be better if Governmentally provided? I can't say. But looking at the past where we have done the same things to other industries, I'd guess yes.

[Kohburn]

Yea, but look at the losers we're fighting. I mean, how do we find an easier fight, go to Ethiopia? In Nam it was 6 1/2:1. If we fought a formidable enemy we would see what war being hell was like. Look at WWII, we lost I think 1/2 million in just 4 years fighting 3 tiny countries, 2 if you count Italy as a joke. NAw, if the world stamped us Imperialists and dangerous it would be bloody and hot (nukes). If the world keeps hating us they'll just cut us off. Hell, they already have to take 1/3 less for their goods since the US Dollar has fallen that much.

the weapons they are using are probably newer and better that what the chinese army is equiped with, they have the advantage of being able to use guerilla warfare and blend in with the population. in WW2 there wasn't much of a technological gap between countries. things are a lot different now.

if ww3 happened i think we would end up forcing the other countries hand on the nukes because we wouldn't be able to handle us by normal means, the nukes are the only thing they have aside from sheer numbers that can level the playing field.

[Mach10]

Diggity:

Your friend is being melodramatic. Our combined tax load is not even in the same universe as "70%." That's including Income, provincial, and federal sales taxes. Dollar for dollar, we do pay a bit more than most people in the US; some more willingly than others--but it's not as different as you are making it out to be.

Furthermore, you aren't describing a fault with socialized medicine in your example, you're describing faults with her GP, and whatever "specialist" the GP referred her to initially. Look up the malpractice statistics on either side of the border. You might be shocked to find that regardless of the billing structure, there is a human element. :salute:

While your point about socialism is taken, it's lost on me, since I myself am a socialist. :thumbleft:

It really depends on your perspective; you could make the argument that any kind of insurance is socialist, and that by requiring insurance to drive a vehicle, you are losing freedom. And yet this somehow changes if you have the "choice" between different insurance providers?

Socialized healthcare has it's advantages and disadvantages--but you haven't given much in the way of a reason as to why you don't want it--just that you perceive it as impugning on your freedom.

I would argue that freedom is in how you are able to live your life. The fact is that in Canada, I don't have to be sick to see my doctor. This is reflected in the lifespan statistics; US-residents only go when they are sick. Most aren't going for preventative or maintenance checkups. They are free to die of undiagnosed illnesses--because they seek treatment only when it's inevitable.

Granted, this is a somewhat maudlin way of looking at it... But let's be totally honest; you don't buy "insurance" because you think something IS going to happen; you buy it in case it might happen.

Aaron:

It does and it doesn't. If you consider it as taxation, then fine. You can just as easily consider it as insurance that happens to be deducted each paycheque.

Personally, I feel that it boils down to pride, and to this sense of entitlement that for lack of a better word, I consider to be selfish to the extreme.

Your example of other provided services is a good one.

From my perspective, Healthcare is every bit as important as fire/police coverage. There is (I'm sorry to say) a huge element of selfishness when considering the bottom line for these services.

It's well and good to want to pay less taxes. When you aren't actually using the services, it certainly seems a waste.

To quote an example from the provincial election this year, we had a noisy elephant out on the street protesting our candidate's track record as minister of health.

Interestingly, her problem was that she had been diagnosed with a rare form of cancer, gone through the system, and emerged on top--for 4 years. Then the tumors came back, and did not respond to the chemo like the first run.

Her GP threw his hands in the air, and told her that she'd have to go to the US to try treatment that wasn't available in Manitoba. Under our law, if the physician signs off on it, the province will pay to ship the patient to have other procedures done.

Problem is, the physician didn't file the paperwork properly, and she grabbed a flight before awaiting confirmation. Of course, after they did the treatment, the hospital tried to send the bill to the province of Manitoba, who obviously had no idea what they were talking about, and declined charges. So now, not only does she have a rare form of uterine cancer (which was apparantly brought in check by the US hospital... Kudos!), but now she has a $200,000US bill.

So, instead of appealing, she set up a picket line, promoting the conservative candidate on the basis that the NDP candidate's healthcare record was crap. Even when told--personally by the Minister--that all she had to do was fill out the 2 page form and have her GP sign off on it, she declined.

The irony of course being that the NDP platform is to increase healthcare funding, while the PC candidate wanted to cut funding and privatize--which would mean she'd have had to foot not only the out-of-province care, but the in-province care, also...

Who was at fault here? Her for getting sick? The Province for not writing a blank cheque? Or the doctor for being human, and fucking up?

I mentioned that I felt that this boiled down to pride and selfishness. I should probably qualify that...

Allow me to lapse into blatant idealism:

I'm of the opinion that as a member of society, EVERY member of society has a responsibility to the other. It's not a case of a particular class "carrying" another. It's a case that if you have laws that say that every member of society is equal in the eyes of the law, then by that same virtue, every member of society has the right to the same services provided by that law.

Consider a hard-working low-income earner, and a hard-working middle-class earner. Equal under the law--maybe--but if one gets stomach cancer (for example), one of them is going to be saddled by a crushing debt load for the rest of his life.

You can't expect a minimum-wage earner to shoulder a $300,000 mortgage--so how can you justify FORCING him to shoulder $300,000 worth of medical bills?

There's a difference between taking charge of your life, and having no safety net.

You aren't paying for people to mooch off the system; you are paying into a system that will--when requested--service you with the same level of service that it gives every other citizen of that country. It's a subtle difference, but it's profound.


Canada's Healthcare system has problems.

But the problems aren't in the ideology, the problems are in the execution of a good idea. Currently, the biggest problem IMNSHO is funding direction. Our healthcare system is suffering because there is a good portion of money that is going into the administrative arm of Healthcare. This is money that should be going into healthcare staffing.

A local example is that the WRHA (governing body for healthcare in my city) is bloated with administrative and executive staff. Where there was one manager overseeing an area of the city 5 years ago, there are 6 now. Something is wrong when you have 2 Beaurocrats for every doctor in the system.

But regardless, I still have good access to first-rate facilities. So does my family, and everyone that I know.

Again, there are horror stories--but these serve (in my mind) to show that improvements MUST be made... They don't necessarily mean the system itself is faulty.

[The Dark Side of Will]

if ww3 happened i think we would end up forcing the other countries hand on the nukes because we wouldn't be able to handle us by normal means, the nukes are the only thing they have aside from sheer numbers that can level the playing field.

Don't forget that while there are quite a few countries with nuclear capabilities, these are by and large strategic capabilities, and our missile defense program will, in less than a decade, neutralize the ability of any country to use strategic nukes against us. The Army's patriot missles and the Navy's standard missiles fired from Aegis ships can shoot down theatre ballistic missles. That leaves only tactical nukes, which AFAIK, only the US and Russia have produced.

Even under ideal circumstances, I'm not sure the entire rest of the world could field as much military power as we can. And they never actually will because they'll never be able to work together, let alone work together well enough to field their forces effectively. Against us, WW3 would turn into a war of attrition for the rest of the world.

Unless we deplete the strategic petroleum reserve before we win armageddon...

[EBSB52]

By the way... maybe if the people didn't have to pay an income tax... which is illegal and is not paying for a single program in the United States, they would have more money to pay for their own damn healthcare.

In the 15 years I've been in the job force, if I saved every last dime that I paid in income tax, I *STILL* would have to be making payments on the MRI I had a couple years ago when I had a bout with gastroenteritis with liver complications.

I am not here to pay for everyone and their mothers healthcare, I pay for my own, and it costs me a pretty penny every month... but I don't want someone paying for mine, because then I have to be under their dictation.

If they don't like what I eat, my lifestyle, my weight, etc... they can just kick me off anyway. I won't be able to chose my own Dr. and it might take me 6 months just to see one.

I'll race you: I'll go to the doctor tomorrow morning complaining of a lump in my left testicle. I'll have an ultrasound in 3 days, and a call from the oncologist within 2 weeks.

Just like 4 months ago, I made a doc's appointment, had an "iffy" mole looked at, and was told by the receptionist that due to the backlog at the hospital, I'd have to wait quite some time to have it removed because it was "exploratory."

So I had to sit on my hands until the following week to have it operated on.

ZOMG!

I know people who live in Canada... that shit is failing!

I call bullshit. You know ME, and I live in Canada.

You choose your own doctor; it's not like the HMO system.

It's only "failing" if you try and hit up Emerg for a hangnail.

Yes, there are horror stories, and yes, there is room for improvement.

The Largest challenge Canada's health system faces is hands-down a shortage of Doctors.

Which is ironic, because we have thousands of them immigrating here every year, but the regulatory board is slow as fuck in re-certifying them. My family doctor has a Resident from India; the guy graduated from the top universities, with top marks. He's been in Canada for 10 years, and is only now finishing the stupidity that is the sheer amount of paperwork.

Now, he's graduating with honors (again!) at the top of his class.

Poor bastard had to work as a Janitor while he saved up the $50,000 needed for the exams, licensing etc.

>>>>>>>>In the 15 years I've been in the job force, if I saved every last dime that I paid in income tax, I *STILL* would have to be making payments on the MRI I had a couple years ago when I had a bout with gastroenteritis with liver complications.

Remember, this BS scare of 70% taxes is just like the one where crusty-ass Reagan treid to scare us about the Russians - war on Communism, Drugs - war on drugs, and now the war on terror. Right wingers have to create 100% fear out of 1% truth to create this fear to further their agenda of total fiscal and other control. And I hve to live with a recent bum knee, left wrist in need of surgery 15 years ago, right rotator cuff in need of surgery and some dental work. So what am I saving? It's idiocy to proclaim that socialized meds is good fro anyone but the very rich.

>>>>>>>>>I'll race you: I'll go to the doctor tomorrow morning complaining of a lump in my left testicle. I'll have an ultrasound in 3 days, and a call from the oncologist within 2 weeks.

Just like 4 months ago, I made a doc's appointment, had an "iffy" mole looked at, and was told by the receptionist that due to the backlog at the hospital, I'd have to wait quite some time to have it removed because it was "exploratory."

So I had to sit on my hands until the following week to have it operated on.

I was talking to a conservative Canadian in Vegas and he agreed that the rumor of inferior, delayed healthcare is BS, nd he disagreed with my assertion that the US is FAscist, so he wasn;t a US basher. If Americans had a taste of beautiful Socialized countries like Canada the US might get lonely.

[EBSB52]

In the 15 years I've been in the job force, if I saved every last dime that I paid in income tax, I *STILL* would have to be making payments on the MRI I had a couple years ago when I had a bout with gastroenteritis with liver complications.

So is it fair that I, a hard working tax paying citizen, who coincidentally hasn't had a medical procedure done in my entire life, has to pay a tax, an expensive one at that, to pay for your MRI?

I'll race you: I'll go to the doctor tomorrow morning complaining of a lump in my left testicle. I'll have an ultrasound in 3 days, and a call from the oncologist within 2 weeks.

I've personally never had a problem with US doctor's offices that you all speak of. Even when something unexpected came up, I was fit into their schedule that day. And if it's more serious, there is always the hospital. And at least the ones I've been to, never had a significant wait time or any other deficiency (Except that of hot nurses...)

I can't speak for Canada's healthcare, but I have no reason to be displeased with the healthcare that I've received here in the US. However my parents have healthcare coverage by employment, so maybe I receive better care than the average citizen who has to cut the check for a service/check up, I don't know. But I can't, and won't, complain.

>>>>>>>>So is it fair that I, a hard working tax paying citizen, who coincidentally hasn't had a medical procedure done in my entire life, has to pay a tax, an expensive one at that, to pay for your MRI?

What are ya Arron, 23? And you haven't yet had your bypass, you dialysis and joint replacement? How about people born with congenital issues, how about quads, how about so many? Descent countries don't mince BS, they ensure teh health of their nation.

[EBSB52]

A good friend of mine (Her name is Crystal) lives in Canada, and complains to me daily about the medical care. She is thankful it's "free" but it pisses her off 70% or more of her money is taken away in taxes because of it.

She has a very serious medical condition, and for months and months the doctors couldn't figure out what it was. She came across the bridge to see an American Dr. of her choosing for a diagnosis, and BOOM... they nailed it on the head.

Now yes, this is only once example of probably thousands... but I'm sorry, socialized health care is not something I want... but if I lived in Canada I would have NO CHOICE... that's not liberty, that's ownership of me and my property... that's called slavery... and socialism is on the path towards just that.

Slavery = Socialism :scratch: , Hmmm, even as a metaphor that's ridiculous, esp considering the front-runner of literatal slavery was a Capitalist nation. Helping each other collectively is Socialism.

[Aaron]

What are ya Arron, 23? And you haven't yet had your bypass, you dialysis and joint replacement? How about people born with congenital issues, how about quads, how about so many? Descent countries don't mince BS, they ensure teh health of their nation.

I'm being respectable in my arguments, you could show the same courtesy. This is an issue we will all have to deal with, and one very important to all of us. No need to get dis-respectable and condescending.

I'm 21. First of all, that wasn't "me," that was an example of what someone will say, and has every right to say. While I have had some expensive medical procedures for random medical problems, I had quality insurance to cover them, and was fortunate enough to see good doctors, in a good city, with good surgery centers. I have absolutely no complaints. But I had to cut the check for it (Well, my insurance did). But if I didn't have the insurance, I would have had to cut that check, and it wasn't a small one (At least for a person, as far as medical procedures go, it was). So I am not unhappy with the system, though I could see how someone without insurance could be. And I hate to be selfish, and don't want to sound this way, but frankly, sucks for them. Some people can't afford a reliable car, or a clean/comfortable/safe apartment, some people can't afford healthy food. Some people can't afford Oakley sunglasses. Some people can't afford comfotable shoes. Should we have a Government program for every one of these 'pieces' so that our less fortunate can live like the rest of us? Who's going to pay for that? Taxpayers. Why should we? I study hard, and work hard, so that I can enjoy these. Why should I have to pay for these things for others that can't or won't wok just as hard?

I am selfish. You are selfish. We are selfish. I've been fortunate enough to have the opportunity to have US health care treat me very well. Thus I see no reason to change it. But I am very ignorant of its faults that you speak of. Though I'll acknowledge they exist on your behalf, I haven't seen them, so I can't argue for them. So while I am open to change, I see no reason as the faults haven't affected me, nor do I anticipate them affecting me anytime in the near future. So why should I have to pay for them?

I am all for public safety and protection. Don't take this the wrong way. My major is all about this, as is my career choice. But there need to be lines. The Government IMO isn't there to live our lives for us, and be our "Mommy" because some of us aren't capable or willing to do it themselves. Government's job is not to babysit. The Government, as of right now, takes enough of my paycheck every week to support people who won't help themselves. The last thing I want is to spend more money for these people. My mouth is closed, if my healthcare is unchanged as far as service goes, and my taxes are unchanged. Cut welfare, cut CIA, cut racial scholarships, and then change the healthcare. Just don't let it change the service I see. Because I don't want change. I don't need change. But if it helps others and doesn't hut me, I'm all for it.

[EBSB52]

What are ya Arron, 23? And you haven't yet had your bypass, you dialysis and joint replacement? How about people born with congenital issues, how about quads, how about so many? Descent countries don't mince BS, they ensure teh health of their nation.

.

>>>>>I'm being respectable in my arguments, you could show the same courtesy. This is an issue we will all have to deal with, and one very important to all of us. No need to get dis-respectable and condescending.

I'm not being nasty here, just saying that a kid has no room to make claims of well-being. Everything works awesome at 21, not so muh later on and remember, it was guys like me serving in the military when you were in diapers, the guys in Korea / VN for me, the guys in WWII before them, etc..... It's amazing at how conservatives can show love and praise for elders and the military with selectivity.

>>>>>>>>I'm 21. First of all, that wasn't "me," that was an example of what someone will say, and has every right to say. While I have had some expensive medical procedures for random medical problems, I had quality insurance to cover them, and was fortunate enough to see good doctors, in a good city, with good surgery centers. I have absolutely no complaints.

What procedure(s)? BTW, a utopian world where we are all 21 isn't even a fantasy model of reality.

>>>>>>>>>But I had to cut the check for it (Well, my insurance did). But if I didn't have the insurance, I would have had to cut that check, and it wasn't a small one (At least for a person, as far as medical procedures go, it was).

And if you didn't have insurance, well, fuck you, right? When a nation says, "fuck you" enough it degrades a nation to the POS America is. And your party is the one that seperated health ins from employees via killing unions, so if it was a matter of every employer insuring, well great, but the NAzi Party has done a great job ensuring when people get broken - fuck em.

>>>>>>>>So I am not unhappy with the system, though I could see how someone without insurance could be.

Oh, you mean the 40-50 million. And the other 100M+ who have such ass ins it's basically catastrophe ins.

>>>>>>>And I hate to be selfish, and don't want to sound this way, but frankly, sucks for them.

It sounds duley selfish, but I appreciate the honesty, a lot more than Will or Brian would do. At least you have cookies so say, "fuck em."

>>>>>>>Some people can't afford a reliable car, or a clean/comfortable/safe apartment, some people can't afford healthy food. Some people can't afford Oakley sunglasses. Some people can't afford comfotable shoes. Should we have a Government program for every one of these 'pieces' so that our less fortunate can live like the rest of us?

Now you're getting pathetic. Comparing dental care, not cosmetic but fillings and root canals, to Oakley's, well, cheapens your arg and I think you agree.

>>>>>>Who's going to pay for that? Taxpayers. Why should we?

The est of the non-Nazified (Bush word) world does. The US spends almost dollar for dollar with the entire rest of teh world on their military, so should we pay for that? No one is after us, WTF, line the pockets of military contractors?

Furthermore, you might become disabled at any time and that's who should get care at the expense of the taxpayers. Let's say you become a cop and get hurt not in the line of duty or after you retire, you contributed, you should reap. That middle finger you wave arund will eventually turn back on you, then we have the biggest winers of all; Repubs turned liberal.

>>>>> I study hard, and work hard, so that I can enjoy these. Why should I have to pay for these things for others that can't or won't wok just as hard?

That can't work, as in disabled? Yea, AIDS babies are just a bunch pussies. Don't sit down to hard, ya might damge your heart.

>>>>>>>I am selfish. You are selfish. We are selfish.

Yes, no, and some people. Am I selfish to want all m countrymen and women to enjoy basic healthcare?

>>>>>>> I've been fortunate enough to have the opportunity to have US health care treat me very well. Thus I see no reason to change it.

Yea, and you've been around so long.

>>>>>>>But I am very ignorant of its faults that you speak of. Though I'll acknowledge they exist on your behalf, I haven't seen them, so I can't argue for them.

Actually I see no faults with our healthcare cause I don't have an y coverage. Usually something happens to people or to people close to that given person to wake them up. For examples, Michael J Fox, Christopher Reeves, my dad, etc....

>>>>>So while I am open to change, I see no reason as the faults haven't affected me, nor do I anticipate them affecting me anytime in the near future. So why should I have to pay for them?

Well, you're right, this world is all about you. As you age you will think globally. Example: If I get pulled over, I want it to be a cop 40+. Young kods are assholes most often and they have no perspective, elder cops realize the world won't stop with every beat. Research Freud's, "Id, Ego, Superego" real fast, prolly take you a minute and you might start to understand.

>>>>>>>>I am all for public safety and protection. Don't take this the wrong way. My major is all about this, as is my career choice. But there need to be lines. The Government IMO isn't there to live our lives for us, and be our "Mommy" because some of us aren't capable or willing to do it themselves. Government's job is not to babysit.

I have BS in JUstice, so I fully understand your curiclum. The government is her eot protect the weak and that can take on several contexts. A doorman who can press 4 plates but makes 10$/hr is weak. A Hispanic mother of 4 with no father is weak; the gov is supposed to protect the weak.

>>>>>>The Government, as of right now, takes enough of my paycheck every week to support people who won't help themselves.

Like AIDS babies? Hey, you'll feel warm to know that Bush just killed the child healthcare bill that would have given healthcare to kids in poor families. He said it cost too much @ 35B, when Congress just gave him another 150B for his hobby in the desert. You have a nice party, congratulations. Even other Nazipubs called him names. BRILLIANT.

>>>>>>>>The last thing I want is to spend more money for these people. My mouth is closed, if my healthcare is unchanged as far as service goes, and my taxes are unchanged. Cut welfare, cut CIA, cut racial scholarships, and then change the healthcare. Just don't let it change the service I see. Because I don't want change. I don't need change. But if it helps others and doesn't hut me, I'm all for it

OK, cut some of the 550B per year in basic military operations and the other 200b/year for Bush's hobby in the desert. There ya go, 3/4trillion, hell, end the war and cut military in half and we could immediatley balance the budget. Ahhhhhhhh, but guys like Willie would have to actually help the civil sector, shame.



Don't take this the wrong way, but no adult wants to hear some squeeky kid spout off about how we should all be healthy or be able to pay for pur own medical care. Again, it's great to be 21, but as you see, judges and wise men aren't in their 20's either.

To be fair, in 92 when I voted for Perot and CLinton won, I was against socialized meds too. I was a whopping 30 years old. DOn't worry, like most people, you will gain a better perspective as you age.

[Shaun41178(2)]

I don't beleive in socialized medicine either. Buy health insurance ed. Its that simple.

I shouldnt have to pay for your old age. I got an idea. Save me money, Kill yourself before your med bills add up.

And stop posting your links in the ron paul threads. It should be obvious to you by now that you are killing the threads with them after you post the link. You have done it to 4 threads now. SO KNOCK THAT SHIT OFF,. STAY OUT OF RON PAUL THREADS.

[EBSB52]

I don't beleive in socialized medicine either. Buy health insurance ed. Its that simple.

I shouldnt have to pay for your old age. I got an idea. Save me money, Kill yourself before your med bills add up.

And stop posting your links in the ron paul threads. It should be obvious to you by now that you are killing the threads with them after you post the link. You have done it to 4 threads now. SO KNOCK THAT SHIT OFF,. STAY OUT OF RON PAUL THREADS.

I was waiting for the first POS to expose himself. Fuck you queer, have a pair and serve in the military like I did. In fact, has anyone in here done that? All you so-called patriots? 45 is not old age, but it's not a punk boy like you. As I told Brian in PM, I understand the anger generated from kids who inherited the debt. The problem is that they're too short-sighted to understand 2 things:

1) The people they want to deny he coverage aren't the ones who put us there

2) If successful in pressing their twisted, ignorant ideology, they will have to bear the fruits of that in 20 years when they need the services.

It's a short-sighted, knee-jerk reaction to a bad problem, the problem of our enormous debt that was created by Reagan, Bush, Bush. It's like if your car doesn't run, you keep putting 5k paint jobs on it every month saying that's not the problem, ignoring the fact that it doesn't run because you aren't fixing teh engine - still putting 5k/month into new paint jobs. The issue is with military overspending, not social svs.

IF the military is not the issue, then explain how Canada has gov healthcare, yet are kicking our dollar's ass. Easy idiot, they don't mortgage their future with military overspending and they don't go around making enemies so they don't need one.

>>>>>Save me money, Kill yourself before your med bills add up.

Nah, I'll just spend your future money :thumbleft: Tough shit, your problem when I get the fuck out of this country and go to another. Enjoy when Canda goes 2:1 like the pound did :salute: Fuck, Australia is 1.12, soon to be even

>>>>>>>>>SO KNOCK THAT SHIT OFF,. STAY OUT OF RON PAUL THREADS.

Right, it's me. Don't like the truth so you shut it down. It's like we're in P-F-F.

[Mach10]

Right, it's me. Don't like the truth so you shut it down. It's like we're in P-F-F.

I'm SO not getting involved in the pissing match...

But I'd like to interupt and confirm that it IS you shutting down those threads.

This version of phpBB doesn't like certain links--usually to do with certain characters appearing.

So, if you post a link, then start getting server messages, congrats... You boned it.

I've personally nuked at least 4 threads like this.