To build the ultimate 3.4 DOHC: Turbo DYNO NUMBERS

fieromadman · Post by **fieromadman** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:37 am

I will eventually go with 3" into the muffler. Right now I'm worried about room constraints enough. I also would have to order another muffler or modify mine for that. I will do it eventually I just need to see how things pan out for now.

As for the reason I went with stainless intercooler tubing is because it's easier to weld, and the price on that kit was right and any leftovers I have I can use for exhaust.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:04 pm

Aaron wrote:
The Dark Side of Will wrote: Performance difference is NIL, cost difference is significant.
ALLTRBO used aluminum straights and bends and steel Y-pipe for his TT Camaro for exactly that reason.
The cost difference is actually barely noticable, if you're smart when buying the piping. CAI kits on eBay are cheap as shit. I got 4 90* bends, in 3" diameter, thinwall aluminum tubing, for $30. I can't beat that even wholesale on steel.

cost difference is minimal IF you have the ability to weld aluminum yourself. otherwise you pay twice as much because you have to pay someone else to do it. or you use a bunch of silicon couplings.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:15 pm

That I understand, as I had to pay to have mine welded. I only have 3 welds on all of my charge piping though, so it wasn't too bad. His will probably need more though.

The Dark Side of Will · Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:26 pm

Aaron wrote:
The Dark Side of Will wrote: Performance difference is NIL, cost difference is significant.
ALLTRBO used aluminum straights and bends and steel Y-pipe for his TT Camaro for exactly that reason.
The cost difference is actually barely noticable, if you're smart when buying the piping. CAI kits on eBay are cheap as shit. I got 4 90* bends, in 3" diameter, thinwall aluminum tubing, for $30. I can't beat that even wholesale on steel.

I'd rather just buy what I know will work than try to scrounge some crap from ebay.

Nashco · Post by **Nashco** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:27 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:
Aaron wrote:
The Dark Side of Will wrote: Performance difference is NIL, cost difference is significant.
ALLTRBO used aluminum straights and bends and steel Y-pipe for his TT Camaro for exactly that reason.
The cost difference is actually barely noticable, if you're smart when buying the piping. CAI kits on eBay are cheap as shit. I got 4 90* bends, in 3" diameter, thinwall aluminum tubing, for $30. I can't beat that even wholesale on steel.
I'd rather just buy what I know will work than try to scrounge some crap from ebay.

Where's the fun in that?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:33 pm

It seems to have worked out well enough.

fieromadman · Post by **fieromadman** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:27 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:
I'd rather just buy what I know will work than try to scrounge some crap from ebay.

That too...

fieromadman · Post by **fieromadman** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:39 am

Well I recieved all the parts that I need to do my intercooler tubing and exhaust. Look for that project to start late this week or early next week. Still need to modify my upper intake manifold. Also, I test fitted the intercooler and it will work in that location with some trimming of non-visable plastic panels. Also recieved my intercooler pump.

Perhaps the most exciting thing that happened was getting the much needed information and map from Matt Hawkins yesterday. The ecu should definately be installed and running (crosses fingers) by the end of this week. Thats the first priority.

Also, that 97 crate engine that I had mentioned earlier in the thread is going to be mine in a few days here. He took a low offer from me because it still hadn't sold. That will be a project for next spring though.

Will keep you guys updated on progress.

Atilla the Fun · Post by **Atilla the Fun** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:16 am

On an N/A setup, a 2.5" straight exhaust pipe becomes a restriction at the 270 crankshaft HP mark, or 540 if dual exhaust. 3" will easily support over 350 RWHP per tube, but if you're going single turbo, you need at least 3.5" as close to the turbo as possible, and that could be split to 2.5" dual, or just stay single 3.5"

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:30 am

Agreed. Mine is a single 3" to dual 3", however I wouldn't mind having a 4" pipe.

Remember madman, it's a turbo car, so the bigger the better!

fieromadman · Post by **fieromadman** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:35 pm

Dude, think about it this way...

The turbo outlet is 2 3/8". You are going to only flow as much as your most restrictive point. The turbo is the restriction. Sure, by making the exhaust as big as possible and reducing the backpressure beyond the turbo you will see better gains, but really anything over 3" is overkill for a t3 exhaust housing.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:50 pm

I have a T4 housing, and my outlet is 3".

Nashco · Post by **Nashco** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:15 pm

fieromadman wrote:Dude, think about it this way...

The turbo outlet is 2 3/8". You are going to only flow as much as your most restrictive point. The turbo is the restriction. Sure, by making the exhaust as big as possible and reducing the backpressure beyond the turbo you will see better gains, but really anything over 3" is overkill for a t3 exhaust housing.

That's really major oversimplification. Look at the housing, the exhaust necks way way down inside the turbo if you're looking at cross-sectional diameter only. Does that mean if it necks down to 1.5" inside the turbo then you can run 1.5" exhaust? Obviously not.

I think the moral of the story with a turbo is that if you have space, bigger is better (within reason), but if you're space limited run the biggest you can.

Where are you ordering stuff from? Between silicone, aluminized, stainless, clamps, etc. you've got quite the shopping list.

Bryce

fieromadman · Post by **fieromadman** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:33 pm

I know Im simplifying.. but I really do feel that anything over 3" is overkill for this turbo.

Yeah... I've bought parts from so many places... Went with the places that I found good recommendations for and that were generally the cheapest.

This is where I got my exhaust... real inexpensive especially with the kits everything went smooth for me, was recommended on homemadeturbo.com forums.
http://store.racing-solutions.org/index.html

This is where I got my silicone couplers, also recommended on HMT, real fast shipping.
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/index.ph ... 4cb41f7dc0

Got my clamps off ebay. Ordered on the large size of what they said to. Worked out well.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 83983&rd=1

Any other questions?

Nashco · Post by **Nashco** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:02 pm

fieromadman wrote:http://store.racing-solutions.org/index.html

Awesome, these guys are literally less than 30 miles from me...I didn't even know they were there! That will really come in handy, I've got three sets of headers (and associated exhaust) to build in the not-so-distant future. I just checked and they were actually in the "hard to find parts" thread....duh.

Bryce

fieromadman · Post by **fieromadman** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:53 pm

Other than my intake manifold woes, the only thing that i really need to order yet is all my oil line stuff. I'm finding that the 36" hoses that you can commonly find on ebay would not quite be long enough with this setup. I have found some cheapish braided hose that should work perfectly fine but it uses pre-assembled AN fittings. Obviously this is not the end of the world. Now, my question is does anyone know what the thread of the oil pressure sending unit is and where I can get a t fitting with one male of the sending unit thread one female of the sending unit thread and one -4 AN thread? Probably not going to happen but if I could find out what the thread of the sending unit is at least that would be a great help. Too lazy to take it off and go to the hardware store... btw it's bigger than 1/8 NPT but might be a NPT thread...

Thanks for any help...

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:15 pm

fieromadman wrote:Now, my question is does anyone know what the thread of the oil pressure sending unit is and where I can get a t fitting with one male of the sending unit thread one female of the sending unit thread and one -4 AN thread? Probably not going to happen but if I could find out what the thread of the sending unit is at least that would be a great help. Too lazy to take it off and go to the hardware store... btw it's bigger than 1/8 NPT but might be a NPT thread...

Thanks for any help...

They are NPT threads.

You won't find a T like that.

I used a T with the same NPT female threads on all 3 sides, with a single male-male NPT adapter that went from the block to the T. Then I screwed the oil pres sender in. I had a hardware store custom make my teflon coated steel braided line, and it had the NPT fitting on the end. The brass fittings were from Home Depot.

fieromadman · Post by **fieromadman** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:35 am

Thanks Aaron that helps a ton. I guess I'll have to just take the sending unit to the hardware store or home depot and see what the duce they can come up with.

Anyone have the resisitor picture from the DOHCFiero website saved. It would be the pic on this page... http://web.archive.org/web/200410250633 ... sistor.htm

I NEED That

The Dark Side of Will · Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:17 am

R121 should be labelled on the board. Just look closely.

I'm really curious about WHY the Haltech needs physical modification to work with an extremely common ignition system. Yet more reasons to solidify my contention that it's an extremely primitive, difficult engine management.

fieromadman · Post by **fieromadman** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:26 am

Apparently It needs to be removed to read the low voltage signal from the sensor. Most crank sensors are higher voltage than that one... :scratch: ?

I agree it is rather primitive... the E6k is an older system though, without a doubt newer systems have improved. You get what you pay for... I paid very little in comparison to others.

And I know it should be labeled, but I can't find the F***ing thing!