To build the ultimate 3.4 DOHC: Turbo DYNO NUMBERS

[fieromadman]

Matt, thanks for your information. I'm using the timing tables that you sent me from that basic tune you had. Maybe I should try to set my timing at 67 degrees and see if it runs any better? Thanks for your information, as always!

The return line for the oil is high temp push-loc line. Where it is in close proximity to the exhaust I wrapped it with DEI heat tape. If it ends up leaking or whatever I'll replace it with braided line. Here is a link: http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/764426/10002/-1

[fieromadman]

I got the interior back together completely today, and did some restoration to it while I was at it.... I also got the hood back on and aligned. Aside from that I found that an oil leak I was having was definitely from a faulty feed line. Ordering a new one asap. Tomorrow should bring fabrication of the rest of my exhaust and dump tube. Also going to have to come up with some sort of a mounting bracket for the intercooler instead of having it just dangle there. I ordered a new clutch slave cylinder... it should be here tomorrow which means I might actually drive the car around the neighborhood tomorrow. Getting closer, slowly...

[Matt Hawkins]

Matt, thanks for your information. I'm using the timing tables that you sent me from that basic tune you had. Maybe I should try to set my timing at 67 degrees and see if it runs any better? Thanks for your information, as always!

The return line for the oil is high temp push-loc line. Where it is in close proximity to the exhaust I wrapped it with DEI heat tape. If it ends up leaking or whatever I'll replace it with braided line. Here is a link: http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/764426/10002/-1

I am running the same push-loc line for my oil return.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Nothing wrong with push-loc.

[fieromadman]

Well I got a few things done today again but mostly just did a lot of running around.

For whatever reason the slave cylinder went bad on the car while it was sitting. I put in an order for a new one last week and it finally came in today. I couldn't complain though because it was only 29 dollars. I could have gotten one the next day but it would have been 90. Anyhow, I put that in and bleed the clutch and I now have a fully operating clutch again.

I also had a faulty oil feed line and went and got all the AN fittings and such to replace it. The old one was an eBay line which really wasn't great quality anyhow. The new one is a full AN line with NPT to AN fittings and such. It should last longer, seal better, and look better than the old one.

That's really about all that I got accomplished though, which is a real bummer. Tomorrow I should have the exhaust and dump tube done hopefully. I still need to work on the rest of my intake and filter system for pre-turbo. I also need the dogbone mount attached to the trunk wall side of the engine. Aside from tuning, that stuff is about it though!

Matt, are you using the throttle pump settings on the Haltech? My understanding is that it helps with throttle response with fast inputs of throttle, which my car desperately needs help with... perhaps you could enlighten me. I KNOW I need lots of tuning elsewhere, but it seems as though I'll need to use this function too.

[fieromadman]

Well I got a lot accomplished today...

Started with getting my sagging door hinge pins replaced. That was a huge relief to have done. Then I mounted the dog bone bracket to the trunk wall. It turned out pretty good. Then I detailed the interior and dusted the car off and cleaned all the glass inside and out. The car was/is absolutely filthy and it has been bugging me. Still needs a good wash job and a definite buffing/waxing... but it looks a ton better. Then after that break from actual work I fabricated and tacked up the rest of the exhaust and the dump tube. Both turned out pretty good. At some point I think I'm going to ditch the massive flowmaster and go with something smaller and quieter at which point I'll re-do the section to the tips as well. For now it'll do. Here's some pictures...

Well I also finished up the front compartment and cleaned it, not that there was much left to do with that:




Here's how the inside of my cooler works:


The screen is so that when I put ice into it the ice doesn't get sucked into the line and thus into the pump...


One of the new door hinge pins...


Clean interior:




Just some exterior shots of how the car sits now:




Ok, here is where the dump tube comes out, but I don't know if it is the best placement or not. Unfortunately, this is about the only place that I can go with it. This means I will have a black sooty wheel often I think...


It will clear all the suspension...




V-band to muffler...


Muffler is just too big for there...


Tips and ass end.

[Matt Hawkins]

Matt, are you using the throttle pump settings on the Haltech? My understanding is that it helps with throttle response with fast inputs of throttle, which my car desperately needs help with... perhaps you could enlighten me. I KNOW I need lots of tuning elsewhere, but it seems as though I'll need to use this function too.

Don't mess with any tuning that isn't base tuning with the engine warm. If is starts right now, good enough. Once you get the car driveable, get it up to temperature and start tuning there. If you are trying to tune while the car is warming up or in transients, you will be chasing your tail. Once you have the stabilized, warmed up tuning done, then start tuning the adjustments for temp, accelerator, etc...

[fieromadman]

Ok thanks for the advice Matt! I dont know how much I will actually tune this thing myself... I just want to get it running BETTER than it is.

[fieromadman]

I drove the car today! I only went around the block, but it still felt good. First impressions is that this clutch is REALLY grabby, the car handles WAY better than my eclipse... I need tuning tuning and more tuning and this thing should be wicked fast when its done. So obviously the car is pretty much done. It still needs more tuning but I got it to the point where at least at part throttle, it's rich across the board as best as I can tell. The biggest issue that I am having is that I CANNOT get it to idle down. I think I need to spend some more time with the IACV settings but I'm not sure because I have already messed with them a lot. Does anyone know how to test a IACV?

Anyhow, I have a friend coming over that has tuned a few cars and has a WAY better understanding of tuning than me to help me tune on Sunday hopefully.

I got the rest of the exhaust and fabrication in general done on Sunday. The only thing left to do is fix my coolant leak(s) on my lower intake manifold. Where I have those AN fittings is NOT working out for me, unfortunately. I think I'm going to have to use some JB weld. Anyone got ideas there? The only other question that I have is should I be concerned that my turbo smokes? It's from the exhaust housing... and it does it in decreasing amounts. I think that it's just the oil that was on it from being machined and whatever other contaminants that may have gotten on it. I'm not too worried about it, but I was just wondering if you guys have had experience with smoke from the outside of the hot side of a new turbo...

[The Dark Side of Will]

The only other question that I have is should I be concerned that my turbo smokes? It's from the exhaust housing... and it does it in decreasing amounts. I think that it's just the oil that was on it from being machined and whatever other contaminants that may have gotten on it. I'm not too worried about it, but I was just wondering if you guys have had experience with smoke from the outside of the hot side of a new turbo...

As long as it's not an exhaust leak, it's nothing to worry about. Like you said, just oil from machine work; as well as dermal oils from being handled. The smoke you should be concerned about comes out the exhaust tips.

[fieromadman]

Here's some pictures...

Interior and tuning laptop... I'm going to be spending LOTS of time doing that...


Dogbone and turbo...


Different angles of the whole setup






That's about it...

[fieromadman]

Will,

Yeah thusfar I haven't seen nor heard about any smoke from the exhaust tips. It's just oils I'm pretty sure. The turbo blanket is going on anyhow... That is probably going to make it smoke for a while too.

[fieromadman]

I spent ALOT of time tuning the car today. I was having trouble getting the idle rpm's down to the right rpm with the iacv. I ended up swapping out iacv's and that didn't make a difference. So I decided to plug the passageway and just open up the throttle body more and recalibrating the throttle with the haltech. I got it to a point where it starts without giving it gas, never stalls, and idles at 1200 when the engine is warm. Then I went about adjusting the air fuel ratio to give me good throttle response and good air fuel ratios from 1-10 percent throttle. I also adjusted the base timing for the NA side of things based on a map that Sappy from 60 degree made. Yesterday my ignition was so far off (retarded) that my exhaust manifolds were glowing red so that's why I had to change that. I drove the car to the liquor store in the fiero after that. That's the farthest that I have taken the car in a year, so that was exciting. It also ran MUCH better than the last time I drove it. Tomorrow my friend is comming over and were are going to setup a datalogging system with the wideband. Then were going to tune it. Hopefully I'll get some full 6ish PSI runs in tomorrow.

Anyhow, here is a video of the idle and a little rev. It sounds rightfully badass with the cams and turbo at idle. I havent ever heard this thing idle decent since i had the cams done so thats cool!

[fieromadman]

Well today was all in all successful!

Last night I took off the lower intake manifold to patch up where the AN fittings went into it. I had a coolent leak problem from the NPT to AN adapter that threaded into the coolent. I ended up breaking out the JB weld and gluing it last night. So far I have not seen or noticed any leaks from there since and you really cannot tell that there is JB weld on it unless you look close.

We ended up getting a data logger working with the gm 3 bar map, the stock fiero tach signal, and the wideband. Using those three we were able to determine where the engine needed more fuel by mapping their outputs. We were able to get a pretty good safe tune going on 5 psi. Driveability needs work... it can be really rich or fairly lean depending on where the rpm and throttle is. On boost is always pretty much rich. It's a rough tune but for getting accomplished what we did today I think it was a success.

The car feels fairly fast, but I really wasn't paying so much attention to how fast it was as much as I was paying attention to driving and the wideband.

There was some problems though, The first issue that came up was that my shift cable was definitely not adjusted right and it would pop out of first from time to time. Second was that when I did a second gear pull once I could not get the shifter out of second right away! I dont know if these problems could be related, but I'm REALLY hoping that they are. This transmission worked PERFECT before I parked it to do the turbo install and I dont think that a few 5 psi pulls would change that so fast! I adjusted the shift cable since and took it out again and didn't notice any such problems.

The other problem is that I think I need more injector... I'm approaching the 100 percent duty cycle mark awfully quickly. It's also difficult to tell but I think that it might even be leaning out around six grand with a 100 percent duty cycle already. If this is true I dont know how Matt and Aaron are getting away with running 14 psi on their injectors that aren't that much larger than mine (36#). Matt's are 5.3 percent larger (38#) and Aarons are 15.3 percent larger (42.5#, which is quite a bit, but they still dynoed close to the same ammount of HP... although one's was altitude corrected).

[The Dark Side of Will]

An engine's injector needs are driven by how much air it takes in, not how much power it would be predicted to make at sea level.

For instance, if you dyno'd an engine at 3 psi absolute ambient pressure, it will make 1/5 as much power as it would at sea level. That means it's only taking in 1/5 as much air and only needs 1/5 as much fuel. You could make 100 HP on 13# injectors and apply the correction factor to get 500 HP at sea level... with 13# injectors.

[fieromadman]

Well Matt's car is around the same altitude as mine is... his fuel needs should also be about the same as mine are because our engines are quite comparable. I dunno, I think I'm just going to go overboard on injection and get some 750's. That should leave me sitting good for a long time... It might take me a while to get those however because they'd be like 550 dollars.

[Shaun41178(2)]

go to 42 lb injectors.

your turbo isalso larger than ,matts so its possible to flow more air at less boost.

Doing the math based on matts injectors size and his RWHP, he is well over 100% duty cycle. I think on a 6 cyl, 42 lbs are good to around 400 hp if memory serves me right. And he is making 415 whp.

[Matt Hawkins]

The highest I have seen my injectors is ~86% duty cycle. Rough math says the amount of HP a fuel injectors can support is double it's flow rate (lb/hr). So my six 38lb injectors should be good for roughly 456 hp. This is very dependent on BSFC. My numbers indicate a slightly lower BSFC meaning I am capable of slightly more potential than double the flow rate.

Fix your tune. How rich is rich? There is no way you are maxing out those injectors at 5 psi with a reasonable AFR. Have you checked your fuel pressure to make sure your reference is working correctly?

[The Dark Side of Will]

This is very dependent on BSFC. My numbers indicate a slightly lower BSFC meaning I am capable of slightly more potential than double the flow rate.

You're running a completely stock engine, right? The typical BSFC estimates are probably based on 8.5 compression. 9.3 should lower your BSFC.

[fieromadman]

At WOT the air fuel was anywhere from 10.5 to 11.8. Like I said It's a rough but fairly safe tune right now. I know that I need to adjust my maps. I think that the guy that was helping me tune might have been adjusting the wrong maps when he was trying to get rid of the leanout in the higher RPMS. I think that when he was supposed to be adjusting the 6500 maps he was adjusting the 6000 maps. It's really hard for me to know for sure though.

I'm going to use a fuel pressure gauge to hopefully give me some readings at 5 psi. I'm really hoping that i dont have a fuel rail pulsation problem but I dont see why I would. I'm running 2 sets of three injectors with batchfire. I have them setup so of the three injectors in each batch two of them are on one cyl bank and one is on the other to help offset the alleged pulsation problem. There is an injector phasing map in the Haltech and I was wondering if maybe adjusting that would be helpful. I guess I dont really get how the phasing map works though...

I really dont think that I should be maxxing my injectors out at 5 psi. If I am, then hot damn! That means my engine flows ALOT of air. Just would suck that I need to buy new ones already, not that I didnt see this being an issue. Anybody want to buy some Accel 36#/hr injectors that have maybe 1000 miles on them?